Very interesting. Where do you get the device? Also since the device is measuring output not raw weight, did you generate the same amount of power when you were younger but had lower single rep maxes?
Does anyone else use these?
I think Bondarchuk would say so. That's why he works at around a 70% level and says there is little to no transfer in increasing the strength levels of an already strong thrower. There's a Bondarchuk thread.
I googled it to no avail. Is is a device with electrodes or what?
The 530 didn't look like a max. What is your max?
How do you figure the watt output on a bench?
One of the articles I read recently said your front squat should be 85% of your back squat. Does that apply to any of you?
Will Truong 6' 1 245
Bronson Osborn 6' 2 235
My two best throwers
Will Truong Senior 17 18.00 Shot (59' 10) 48.75 Discus ( 160 )
115 Kg Snatch ( 253 lb)
162.5 kg Clean ( 357 lbs )
237.5 kg Full Squat ( 522 lbs)
160 Kg Bench ( 352 lbs )
Bronson Osborn Freshman 15 17.15 Shot Put ( 56'3) 50.12 Discus ( 164 )
95 Kg Snatch ( 209 lbs )
115 Kg. Clean ( 253 lbs )
152.25 Kg. Squat ( 335 )
145 Kg Bench ( 319 )
To be honest I'm just trying to follow Bondarchuck's model this year and see how we do. As far as special throws as a whole group ( if I understand your question ) we just do stand throws and those are primarily SDE work. We throw 25 lb kettlebells standing and 16 lb shots standing. I know some coaches also use overhead throws but I haven't. I think it comes down to the 10,000 throws a year idea ( Danek?) or Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours requirement for greatness. We'll never reach that but every partial throw we take is one less full throw.
As far as fine sand I'm sure it would work. We used sand I stole from the long jump pit for many years.
I still use South Africans but only as a corrective drill for throwers who don't understand getting across the ring. I think it helps then understand the linear component. I just don't have everybody do it. We just got into real throws sooner and our progress has been faster although it's hard to say exactly why. We used to do 5 stands, 3-5 South Africans, 3 - 5 pivots etc. Now it's just a few stands and all fulls. I try to get more speed by telling them to turn the right hip over as fast as they can after they unseat ( leave the back ). But for it to work they have to have their chest up. Godina is a good video model. I'm sure chicken feed works well. I used to use sand but rice is better.
All of the video examples of the SPE and SDE exercises on the Bondarchuk site
are my throwers. I have done parts of what Dr. B advocates and missed many other parts because I wasn't exposed to it. This year I am following a great deal of it in these ways:
- I quit having my throwers do partial throws ie. South Africans, Pivots, etc because he feels there is little carryover to real throws.
- I am doing a morning session of 25 minutes of SDE work before school with my best throwers instead of tacking it on after an hour and a half of throwing and two hours of lifting.
- With my best senior thrower ( 17 ) who already has high strength levels ( 117.5 snatch, 162.5 clean, 235 kg full squat we will end the cycles ( realization phase ) with 70% weight work instead of the 95% I previously did.
- We use variable weight everyday. We throw 4 stands with a 12 kg kettlebell, 4 stands with a 16 lb. then six throws with a 14 lb, six with a 12 lb, six with a 10 lb and six with a 12 lb typically. So far I have a senior throwing 59' 10.5, another senior throwing 53' 3 and a freshman throwing 56' 3 so I think it is going well.
Originally we drove the hand down with the hand back like a shot was in it and then pushed through like a throw. Now we stick it straight down and work it back and forth as far as possible. It is very good for shot putters who sometimes have hand problems from the shot bending their fingers back too far. We do 50 twice a day both hands. It's originally from martial arts and I used it when I had hand problems.
I don't pull out a tape unless it's something spectacular but I absolutely keep track mentally of how far the throwers are hitting with the various weighted shots. If you have accurate sector lines ( and we do ) any experienced coach can tell you what a throw is within 6".
BONDARCHUK AND SPECIAL DEVELOPMENTAL EXERCISESTo identify special strength exercises, Anatoliy Bondarchuk categorizes exercises based on the muscles, movements, and energy systems used. The end result is four categories of exercises that move from general to specific:General Preparatory Exercises (GE) – exercises that use different systems and movements as the competition movements;
Special Preparatory Exercises (SPE) – exercises that use the same muscles and systems but different movements;
Special Developmental Exercises (SDE) – exercises that use the same muscles, same systems, and parts of the competitive movement; and
Competitive Exercise (CE) – the competitive movement itself.
For example, a discus thrower would consider jogging a GE, power cleans an SPE, rotational medicine balls throws as an SDE and throwing the discus as the CE. What most people would call special strength exercises falls into the SDE category since it mimics the movement of the competitive exercise in order to strengthen the movements and muscles used in the sport. For more information about Bondarchuk’s classification system, see chapter one of his book Transfer of Training in Sports Volume 2.
- On a practical level coaches are usually trying to find examples of this SPE and SDE. I've compiled some examples of both on this webpage.
Btw I don't claim to be a world class coach. I don't know why that's on there. I was able to pick up a lot of information from elite coaches like Art Venegas when I had a thrower go to UCLA, from Don Babbit and Dan Lange when I did clinics with them and from expert coaches like Lloyd Higgens, Coach Mackay, Scott Semar, and Tony C. I have had success because I am good at synthesizing the information into a form that works for my high school situation and developing throwers with workouts I also had a lot of imput on from the above coaches. Occasionally I come up something of my own.
My daughter's claim to fame was she threw her weight. She weighed 112 and threw 131'. With the popularity of volleyball and softball club teams here, it's very tough to get girls. My best girl throwers
41' 2 K. THOMPSON 00
41' 1.75 C. CHESTER 01
40' 9 S. SAMPSON 99
36' 6 S. KNISLEY 01
35' 11.5 L. ALLEN 13
35' 11.25 A. PARRISH 00
35' 2.5 C. KOLLMAR 95
35' 2 K. LAICH 00
142' 2 K. THOMPSON 00
139' 8 K. LAICH 07
139' 5 J. BRICKNER 01
133' 5 S. SAMPSON 99
132' 2 S. JARNER 98
131' 4 C. PENDLETON 01
@Norm Zylstra asked me to post my training group, so I will. Brief background my dad was a track coach. I was a fairly good hs thrower when football didn't get in the way. I started about 5 years after @Tony Ciarelli coaching in the same area (Orange County). He was dominating at Edison from Hunt. Beach and my first goal was to become the Edison of North Orange County.
I have had the pleasure of coaching a national champion, 2 state champions, and 16 CIF champions. So far this year, I have a 59' 10.5 and 160' senior thrower this year, a 56' 3 and 164' freshman, and a 52' 6 senior. I have been able to give Tony some competition most years sort of like Carthage to his Rome. These guys were all from my school, Esperanza in Anaheim, Ca.
55 ' SHOT PUT
66' 8 M. PARLIN 91
61' 1 G. LONG 03
61' B. POOLE 08
60' 11.75 A. DAN 04
60' 6.5 M. MILLER 11
60' 3 JU. BIRRELL 98
59' 10.5 W. TRUONG 14
58' 3.25 M. KINNEY 90
57' 7.5 T. JONES 01
56' 11.75 C. UNDERWOOD 89
56' 3 T. MCCULLOUGH 93
56' 3 B. OSBORN 14
56' 2.5 M. GRAY 03
55' 9 M. BURNS 90
55' 1 T. MCDONALD 10
170 ' DISCUS
203' 5 T. PENDLETON 00
200' 9 M. GRAY 04
194' 2 M. PARLIN 91
193' 9 A. DAN 04
181' 8 M. LOPEZ 10
181' 2 J. PENDLETON 09
180' 5 M. MILLER 11
176' 2 S. JARNE 96
172' 2 B. WOODS 98
170' 10 M. JABLONSKY 04
170' 4 J. STEWART 93