So fellow discus throwers. How much/often you do the non-reverse throws. And any thought´s on implementing it to the training regime. I have found it useful to get the feel of the power-position back in addition to the usage of the left leg(right hand thrower), when it tends to vanish and the power in reverse throws leaks. Also the right shoulder in the end of the throw sometimes needs corrections and this "drill" is a good way to get the shoulder "hit" the disc again.
ps. i don´t know the correct terminology(my god there is 1000 vectors in throwing events) so i hope you get the point and any thought on this matter relating to non-reverse stuff is welcome
Well I know a lot of people don't like doing non-reverse work but I like doing it in the off season a lot and will do a few non-reverse throws every practice. I find I get into better positions and have to be much more patient when I throw.
Also now that I'm going into my off season training a majority of my throws will be non-reverse and will be like that until the fall. Hopefully that translates into a longer orbit and better positions in my throw.
what is your correlation between the to distance wise?. MIne is 0.9 (~50m 55.50m). Like you said, patience is a good word for describing the feeling there Matt. I started doing non-reverse throws in my 20s, by then i had build up serious problems to the end of the throw. My technique was fast, but incorrect. I never didin´t finish the throw, I quickly did the reverse after landing to the power-position and didin´t follow through the sequence(hip, pivot,shoulder, posture). I would recommend these for everyone from time to time
Well, I can't speak for the discus throwers, but I use the non-reverse religiously with the shot, it gives you the opportunity to focus on proper power position, hips, and release. I throw at least 5stands and half-turns non-reverse every practice.
We use the non reverse throw extensively in the off - season being maybe half of the throws the first month and less as the season approaches. However, I use them off on on as a remedial tool. When a thrower looks off balance particularly when he/she is overrotating and landing in what I call "the hole" with their feet past midline and their torso leaning back toward the center. When they are doing that they get the the throws off but they aren't good ones. If they do that several throws in a row, I'll have them do a sequence of a 'stop' throw where they cup the discusin their hand so they won't drop it and then stop and freeze when they hit power position. They will almost always hit the power position and be leaning forward and stumble. They will do that a few times until they can stick the landing. Then they throw non-reverse because you can't do it if your off balance unlike a real throw where they can get it off but it's bad and they don't feel/know why. A couple reps of that sequence and they're usually straightened out.
I don't really pay attention to the distance much when I'm doing NR throws. I'm focusing a lot more on what I'm doing in the ring and how it feels. But I'm sure there have been days where my NR throws were better than my reverse.
Non-reverse throwing, this is a good subject.
I use non-reverse throwing all year long for about 60% to 70% of all total throws. Some athletes do it so well that their reverse throw does not beat their non-reverse. You find this a lot with tall gliders and discus throwers. I find tall rotational gliders reverse about 1 to 2 meters better than their non-reverse full. However, when the non-reverse full gets better so does the reverse full.
Non-reversing simply trains the legs what to do and makes the legs do their job. Ground contact is where its at. We should be throwing off of ring-sized force platforms to determine what is good technique and build the technique around the ground forces.
I rarely see a thrower with a good block who isn't a good non reverser. My son threw 203' with the hs disc ( 1.6) and was a non reverser. As a junior he threw 183 both ways but as a senior nr was better. Reidel and Schulte proved it can be done. ( Although all the rest of my good throwers were reversers in meets .)
I've hear a story about how the GDR facilitated the twenty-six-year-old Jürgen Schult's two hundred forty-nine day journey from an active-reversing world record maker to a fixed-feet Olympic gold medalist.
After setting his world record Schult was forced, under threat of ending his career, by the GDR's powers-that-be to change his technique to fixed-feet to increase his consistency and win medals.
Schult's life-time results:
1979 56,18m (184' 4")
1983 66,78m (219' 1")
1984 68,82m (225' 9")
1985 69,74m (228' 9")
1986 74,08m (243' 0")
1987 69,52m (228' 1")
1988 70,46m (231' 2")
1989 68,12m (223' 6")
1990 67,08m (220' 1")
1991 67,20m (220' 5")
1992 69,04m (226' 6")
1993 66,12m (216' 11")
1994 66,08m (216' 9")
1995 65,04m (213' 4")
1996 66,94m (219' 7")
1997 66,24m (217' 4")
1998 66,69m (218' 9")
1999 68,18m (223' 8")
2000 65,81m (215' 11")
2001 62,08m (203' 8")
2002 60,74m (199' 3")
2004 53,23m (174' 7")
Schult's top-10 performances:
74,08m (243' 0") 1986 active-reverse
70,46m (231' 2") 1988 unknown
69,80m (229' 0") 1988 unknown
69,74m (228' 9") 1985 active-reverse
69,52m (228' 1") 1987 unknown
69,34m (227' 6") 1987 unknown
69,18m (226' 11") 1987 unknown
69,04m (226' 6") 1992 fixed-feet
68,82m (225' 9") 1984 active-reverse
68,82m (225' 9") 1988 unknown
1.) What is the real reason Schult changed his finish?
2.) How did Schult make the change?
3.) What finish did Schult use in 1987?
4.) What was the last meet Schult finished with an active-reverse?
5.) Did Schult use an active-reverse in training post-1987?
6.) What does coach Schult teach his training group?
I have always seen fixed-feet throwing as a vital skill for a discus thrower. Not as much for shot putters, but maybe I need to think again?
From a coach's standpoint having a good non reverser is a pleasure. You never worry about fouling.
i think that [articledefinition=2]Schult[/articledefinition] was using fixed feet even before he was reversing. I know there is footage of the first world championships 1983 and him throwing with fixed feet then. I like using fixed feet for bout 50% of full training throws as I lead to the season, sometime 70%. then I typically use it a bit less, maybe 30% in the season. In college my best throws ever warming up and practice all came from fixed feet. I've always been good at it but have never competed that way. maybe one day!