Odysseus' Corner

  • Hello everybody, all my smash-mouth and spirited banter aside, I am going to try to post to this thread once or twice daily covering everything that I think is pertinent to success in the shot put. This may be applied from the youth/junior level to high school to Olympic/open level, men and women. There are no differences in my opinion, barring the obvious...

    To give you a brief background, I possess approximately 10yrs throwing experience. I threw from age 13 to 23 and never reached distances greater than about 19m as a glider by age 23. As previously stated, I accredit this to sub-par coaching and the lack thereof. There was roughly a 10-year lay-off due to military service and other federal gigs, to include some personal issues that had to be tended to, but we're all good today! Today, at age 33, I boast a meet PR of 20.93m (rotational, spin-to-win, baby) and am progressing at a hells-bells pace and haven't hit the wall yet. This mark was recorded after only 6 months into 'the comeback' at an open University meet earlier this winter as an unattached thrower.

    This thread is not about me, but the progression of our sport... throwing, of course; but more specifically the king of the throws...the shot put. When ARE they going to get rid of that little Greek-guy statue winding up with the disc and replace it with the likeness of Brian Oldfield at the release point, about to release the bastard into oblivion? Add a sound effect? Our shot putters' idiomatic 'AAAAAAGGGHHHHHHH!!!' ? Get real, the world record hasn't been challenged in 24 YEARS!!!!

    Ok, people, the first topic I'd like to cover is proper nutrition. I know, sounds rhetoric, but is in fact an esoteric concept that too often goes overlooked. Diet is the most important building block of any training program, bar none. The absolute, most important thing you can do is put the right fuel in the tank to make the ball go. And no, I'm not talking about showing up at meets with a 2-liter Starbucks (I think WADA's limit is about 3 cups worth in the system before we reach the 'restricted' level). HOLY HELL, SOMEONE CALL THE COFFEE POLICE!!

    I am going to say a few things here that many of you are not going to like; I didn't at first when I REALLY started doing my homework, but guess what...IT WORKS! Many of the basics are attributed to bodybuilding (yes, I hate them, too, glorified sissies, but there is raw data on their diets supporting explosive and extended workouts that directly and indirectly translate into increased performance potential in the throwing ring).

    Ok, to begin with, .75-1.25g per pound(.45 kg) of protein consumed daily. This is a pretty loose guideline, but is intended for people of varying body fat percentages. Now, in the military, if you had 18-20% body fat, you were a 'fat-body' and condemned to death (figurative, but they looked like they might have rather died than go through the hell to lose all that in a 10week basic, lol). But as throwers, we don' t mind, you NEED FAT TO BUILD MUSCLE, above 10% is highly recommended. Personally, I'm at 17%, but my shoulders are a meter wide, although I'm going to cut 20lb this Spring. The recommendation is this...if the individual is:

    20+% BF = .75g raw protein per pound (.45 kg)

    15% BF - 20% BF = 1.00g raw protein per pound (.45 kg)

    10% BF - 15% BF = 1.25g raw protein per pound (.45 kg)

    As we are leaner, we need more per unit of body weight.

    So, with that being said, HS and college throwers... 1 - take pizza out of hand, 2 - throw in garbage; drop the carbonated drinks. Holy shit, I tried drinking a mountain dew before lifting about 3 weeks ago and almost puke-and-shit myself (yes, simultaneously) about 20min into my lifting routine <X . Beer....LOVE IT....LOSE IT!!! Yes, fermented beverages were fun at Friday night parties after the game trying to get in the cheerleaders' panties, but now that we've subscribed to a life of treating our bodies as temples, the truth is they bloat muscles (lactic acid fermentation is not an efficient way to deliver ATP, kids, we want as much oxidative phosphorylation happening as is humanly possible). This is due to dehydration and the fact that our humoral lymphatic regulatory (negative feedback) system is trying to funnel all those pesky toxins to our liver (mine's huge, how 'bout yours?). Why take away the efficiency of the God-given tool you were put on the earth to use for the sole purpose to throw the shot?

    Protein shakes...I use ON(Optimal Nutrition) Whey w/ amino load. It's clean, it's good, all the essential aminos you need. For me, it's not feasible to consume 20 8oz steaks daily. I'd never leave my grill or become a permanent fixture at McCormick&Schmicks... and broke...

    Meat... I like it raw, how about you? As lean as possible. Steak, fish, chicken, beef....if it runs around, eat it :thumbup:

    Veggies...yeah, eat 'em if they're served. If I don't get 'em, I do 12 oz of V8. Sorry veg-heads :huh:

    Dairy...lowfat cottage cheese, yogurt(gotta love that acidophilus), DRINK MILK YOU NASTY SOY-LOVERS, soy is terrible for you, wanna grow huge nasty hangin' boobs from overactive mammary glands or get them if you're male?

    Ok, other supplements... creatine... ladies, you're putting a heavy ball into outer space, it's ok to have muscles; my fiancée was a ranked NCAA 1500free and 400IM chick, 5'2" with big wide shoulders, love it, I call her my diminutive female version of ME...and 12 years my junior =O. You're an athlete, not some nasty magazine model(I find them disgusting, they're all air-brushed anyway, what's that Freddy Mercury tune?). Use it, 5g/day. Guys, you know the deal, 5g/day. All that creatine does is give our muscles some more water and the precursors to more efficiently facilitate phosphate transfer at the actin-myosin cross-bridge. Unless you have some type of renal failure due to one of may medical conditions in which this is manifest (in which case you're probably not a competitive athlete), use it. It is naturally produced by your body and when you stop using it after long periods of time, your body continues to manufacture it.

    Beta-alanine.... HOLY SHIT, LET THE CYCLISTS AND MIDDLE DISTANCE RUNNERS COMPLAIN TO HIGH HELL THAT THEY'RE BEING BEATEN BY 'DRUG USERS'. This is a naturally-occurring non-essential amino acid found in food that facilitates accelerated O2 uptake in skeletal muscle cells (as well as others, but we're talking about diet translating to strength here).

    I also use Jack3D pre-workout...more beta-alanine, some caffeine, all legal substances....after 5 years of MDMA and that dimethyl-shit, I didn't take it back then, but it's clean now.

    Gaspari's intra-workout....more micronized creatine with some sugar, BCAAs, nothing restricted or banned

    OLD GUYS (like me)
    glucosamine w/ chondroitin...had a wicked tennis elbow that went away after 3 weeks of this little gem...LOVE IT :D

    Fish Oil....Omegas, HDLs, good for the integumentary(SKIN PEOPLE, IT'S THE LARGEST ORGAN OF YOUR BODY). Betcha' just learned something. Have summa' that. And HDLs = good for the heart and the rest of the cardiovascular system... in excess they actually carry away the LDLs(bad trig's that build up on your arteries). Eat em, they're good.

    Cayenne....good 'ole capsaicin...increases blood flow, which means more O2 in those muscle cells, I use about 80,000 heat units daily...take with food(and milk), lest you be a REAL fire-eater. This will heat you up in no time flat, too...you'll feel it, I promise. Jacko....ah, the little Chilliman was on to something. Bring me some come Rio, kiddo! Good for the heart, too.

    Multivatmin...twice daily, can't hurt. Love me some FLINSTONES CHEWABLES. Do they make those anymore?

    Meals, you know the deal...4-6 daily for optimum uptake, feed those muscles ALL DAY LONG.

    Alright people, eat healthy, drop the pizza and beer, we're not in a frat (I WAS), treat your body right, you'll need it for the ring and afterward. Off to get some sleep now, lotta' training tomorrow.

    Til next time, eat healthy.

  • Hey people, second installment of Odysseus' Corner. Today I'll talk about the lifts, I'll post my routine tomorrow, it's very long... if you want it, you've gotta train for it, there is no substitute.

    Ok, so, over the last 8 months I've varied my routine greatly: started out with main compound lifts being flat bench, incline, leg press sled(full Range of Motion, way past 90deg), no deads, some arms, quad ext/ham flexion, calf ext, lotta core work(overdid it, too much BIG mistake, killed the back), lotta cardio(60-90min before lifting, 60min afterward, didn't need that much, it was detracting from my working sets), a little back (lat pulldowns and low rows), some flies. Most sets were for 10-12reps. Well, needless to say, this was the STUPIDEST plan ever. Of course, I began to evolve it after a month. In the first month back, I saw the big compound lifts all jump by approx. 90-110lb, as with the second month...I'm big and though tall(6'3"), I can put huge slabs of muscle on in relatively little time (and today I'm still adding ~10-15lb per month, incredible).

    Now the first thing I'm going to tell you is that my drastic change involved a lot of study of the Eastern Block methods. Yeah, everything raw and technique has to be pristine; otherwise, You could do some serious damage. Eastern Block is routed in the belief that strength begins at the core. Many 'drills' you'll see hard-core practitioners perform are with very rudimentary items...carrying/throwing/flipping bricks/cinderblocks/kegs/big tires...very strongman-esque. Although we are looking for explosive power, we need BASE STRENGTH. Therefore, over second and third month I modified many exercises to mimic these motions. I knew I would change my routine after about a month, because my 'introductory month' back into it wasn't going to cut it by a mile.

    To start, I warm-up for 15-20min at a moderate pace on a cardio machine (usually recumbent bike bc I don't like to stretch my back out for too long).

    So, the big three for the last 5 months are 1 - ASS-TO-THE-GRASS-SQUAT - this means at the down position, your hams are sitting on your calves people. Your knees will be fine, trust me, this lift killing knees is a myth according to me and many people I've talked to that squat A2G.I've had 7knee operations and my knees never felt better than when I started doing A2G squats. This lift, by my standard, is the king of the weight room. Lol, the only advantage to getting bigger, mass-wise, is as your hams and calves grow, you can't go down any further, you actually 'sit' higher. It is a very athletic movement. I highly recommend your first set starting with just the bar...I do every time I do legs(2x per week). They're already warmed up from the cycling. Now practice flexibility going all the way down, ass out, chest up, looking at the ceiling, bar should rest neatly between ~supraspinatus and trapezius. Very athletic, very powerful movement. This is past parallel, guys, so take the proper precautions(a spotter/know your escape route, Hint: it's not through the floor, don't get trapped under 500-600lb, I've seen it, the aftermath is not recommended).

    I follow A2G with the leg press sled, always. Now my sled is one where you lift, unlock the safety, and if you can't lift it, it'll crush you (JUST WHAT ODYSSEUS ORDERED!!). This mechanism allows for a FULL RANGE OF MOTION, all the way til my hamstrings touch the calves. These are much heavier than A2G, maybe your virgin A2G working sets are only 315/405? mine were, then they got HUGE after I was more familiar with doing them. Another great thing about a leg sled is after your presses, you can drop right down for your calf extensions...two birds with one stone! Perfect.

    FLAT BENCH - everyone's fav... protect your shoulders, people, these are our bread-and-butter. Why on earth people must do the bodybuilder(we talked about those spray-tanned sissy boys yesterday) isolation bench press(upper arms perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the body), I've no clue, maybe no-one ever showed them proper technique. Our goal is to move the weight as fast as humanly possible. Therefore, we are going to 'tuck' our elbows to a 45deg angle(or a little further if it is comfortable, envision someone doing push-up with their elbows back, not out), we're going to flex our traps flat to the bench. On the downward motion, we're going to pinch our scapulas tight. Our bar will come down BELOW THE NIPPLE LINE, NOT MIDWAY DOWN THE PECS. Traps are flexed to the bench as much as we can throughout the motion to maximize shoulder stabilization. Many people aren't doing bench presses properly and they don't see huge gains, get injured, experience endless plateaus....the list goes on...if this is you, I hope you're reading this. There is no harm in throwing 'compression sets' into your routine, bouncing the bar off the chest/ribcage. I do it with over 500lb quite often, you'll get used to it. Lol, but if your bar bends like mine does, you're praying to the weightlifting Gods that sucker doesn't snap, every rep. Also, play with your grip width...move out of your comfort zone...then back to the old, then something new, this keep those enormous pectoralis major thinking. NOTE: no crime in using wrist wraps to tighten the carpals and tendons running deep to the carpal ligament. Just like we use wrist wraps (my fav is the rogue wrap, awesome compression, I'll talk about this when I talk about gear) we use when we throw, this is to protect our wrists from SNAPPING back and causing some gruesome and often career-ending injuries (I'll also talk about tendon/ligament tensil strength and the importance of the concept of getting maximum torque from the 'spring' action of our connective sinews in a later post).

    Incline - very similar to my flat description, except I do half my sets at 45deg and half my sets at 22.5deg. Functional rationale: optimum release angle is 37deg, people, no joke. Why isn't it 45? Because we are much stronger pushing forward than we are overhead, but we have to get some air under that Joker to get the DISTANCE...that's where the 'inverted C' comes in. I'l talk about the 'inverted C' in a later post on technique, this is where core is so important and you just may add 1-2m in a season, no joke. Rutger, you're gonna love me for this, bubba; I've seen you throw and it will help you out immensely, 22m? at least? Not so much with the disc, though. Back to the incline - no shame in alternating between the barbell, dumbells, and the smith machine...yep, I said it...the smith machine. Oh, what sissies to lift with a smith machine. Well, if you want to learn your form to no shoulder pain (feeling a little pinch in those rotator cuffs lately?) and all upper pec and anterior delt and triceps, you'll use it at some point to experiment with grip width, arm position, gotta find what is most comfortable for you...because this is one of the most important concepts of strength training...and Coach Pendleton, if you'd like to derive equations....here ya go:

    Every athlete, no matter what sport, is different. Some of us have BIG LONG LEVERS like myself, Ryan, Chris, Corey... HOLY SHIT...lookit' Majewski!! (billed height 6'8"; looks more like 6'6" to me, he's only a hair taller than Christian, Mike Mai was 6'6" and we'd talk every day apart from when he was deployed). I'm going to look up Mike on AKO, see if we can't get him on here, hope he's still throwing, but I know with deployment tempo and the new baby, he's probably busier than a carpenter bee. And some of us have shorter levers (Reese, my high school throwers, Adam). Here's the deal...we all have optimum angles at which our maximum force output due to 1 - length of levers, points of insertion, and point of origin of the different muscles. This concept applied: I'm 6'3", 325, with a VERY large bone structure(fingers don't touch around wrists for 2"!!), yet I have a 6'9" wingspan and 33" inseam!! Those are some long levers. By right, I should be 6'5"(but it's already hard enough to fit through doors when your shoulders are over ~40" across). What does this mean? For an incline bench, my pectoralis major and minor are fully stretched when I reach level with my lower lip(usually go to my chin level). Any further and I'm getting into the 'no-no zone', we're talking rotator cuff strains and tears if I touch my chest with 405lb at 45deg. Therefore, this is not feasible. And you need to apply this to yourselves and your throwers. If Majewski is ACTUALLY 6'8", I'll bet he benches with a towel or boards. And there is no shame in this. If I had a thrower with levers that long, I would taylor a program to his individual need of shortening range of motion, chopping up a single exercise to make the full motion extremely strong, possibly 2-part 'building sets' to make those muscle much thicker and with that length...24m? 25m? Easily. Workouts would be much longer but EXTREMELY productive and with a person that size... build serious bombs. An exception to this would be Chris, he's moving well over 600lb off his chest and has very long levers, very thick. I am curious, want to ask him if he built his lifts in pieces. I was sure it was an original idea til I heard Ted Arcidi's (over-700lb bench club) talk about the 5-part bench press. Amazing what effort goes into mastering a single lift, but it's working for the big lifters...but we need to maintain some degree of flexibility, so we can't get TOO huge : ) lol, I find this thought entertaining because my build is very akin to that of Bill Kazmeier, but I can still do nose-to-the ground V-sits and fold in half with palms-on-the-ground with a standing legs-together hamstring stretch.

    Military presses...be careful, I'm currently babying my shoulders on the smith machine due to excessive dumbbell military presses. If you are doing them with over 100/120lb dumbells and have long arms, get a buddy to hand them to you in a high position, I love dumbells, but if we're talking time and availability of people, the smith machine is most appropriate and it protects our rotator cuffs.

    Ah, yes...DEADLIFTS... as applies to the knees with A2G squats, I believe that deadlifts have healing power, as well. My back has NEVER felt better. The first month, I didn't do them at all. Lumbar erector spinae were always tighter than a bitch. After the FIRST NIGHT I was feeling perfect, gait was normal, I was popping up from chairs again, felt like breaking out in a dub-step into a break-dance, ahh...let's not get carried away now, I'd probably crumble the concrete. Proper form and this lift is a perfect foundation full-body exercise, ass out, chest up, look to the Gods. My only limitation is my grip strength. I don't like using wraps to HOLD ON to things...doing grip strength training.

    THE BACK....low rows, high rows, lat pulls. These are important because explosive pressing movements are our chief concern. And hold up...another bodybuilding concept...How do we build the FOUDATION for powerful pressing movements? By building enormous thick backs, simultaneously. High rows work the scapular heads, traps, rhoboids. You want to ultimately do these with working sets of approximately 75% of your bench press working sets...yes... if you have to build them up, do it. Bench press grip, bench press width, you are pulling these straight back to your titties, people. You can use a machine or over an elevated bench use an Olympic barbell, face-down, you get the picture. I can't stress the importance of this as I moved through 450lb to 500lb.....to 550lb and beyond on the flat bench. Old concept, VERY OLD....like 1950s/1960s....if you want strong presses, you will build strong pulls, dammit, YOU WILL, or you will not be even CLOSE to your peak pressing strength. You're a high school senior who wants to go from 300lb to 400lb flat bench by graduation? Do these.

    Lats...the largest muscle in the posterior thorax...think we don't use these at the the explosive point of our bench press ....OR OUR SHOT DELIVERY?!?!? Do palms-facing low rows, extend your low back, bend forward, I don't care what these fitness sissies say about 'bending is bad for the back'. I have fused vertebrae, dammit, and I attain full lumbar extension of the erector spinae. Just DO NOT explode with these...you can rupture lumbar muscles and connective tissue. Watch Arnold in Pumping Iron(1977) and how he does his low rows... and doing these in a controlled manor, we're nor going to hurt our backs bc we did our deadlifts......right??? Do your friggin deadlifts!!

    Lat pull-downs...I have very stubborn lats, that, for the first time in 33 years are starting to really grow with the best program I've ever used (I promise to show you tomorrow, it's 2-3hrs/day, so don't be squeamish). I alternate palms forward, palms forward, palms inward(gotta change that little attachment) 2 sets each for 8 reps, only concerned with building massive latisimus dorsi to assist my presses here, as with the aforementioned low rows.

    Ok, last compound exercise and I'm going off to la-la land... And this may be widely debated. Bu tI'm the one throwing just shy of 21m after 6months of balls-to-the-wall professional-grade training, so listen up...many of you do and teach and preach the power clean and/or clean and jerk, even snatches, that's fine. Me, I love the push-press...VERY rudimentary. very brutish. lol, I love 'em. Yes, the clean-and-jerk and all Olympic variation are great for teaching the CNS explosive power and 0-90 torque and is a great full body lift and I may, in fact, re-incorporate them in time, we'll see. Alright the push-press is executed from the standing position, you can vary the depth and extentent of the leg wind-up....START LIGHT and watch your teeth! You want to keep those, I like mine :D ...just where they are. Just 3-5 rep sets here, maybe 4-5 total sets, they're like deadlifts, not too many.

    Just one important adage here...PRIMING THE central nervous system(CNS). We did our little 20min cardio warm-up, but for the BIG compound lifts we also need to warm-up to prime our CNS to get in that peak strength zone for our working sets... ever have those days where you feel strong as hell but can't lift as much as you KNOW YOU CAN??? Well, I promise you'll have MUCH FEWER of those if you DO THIS: Let's say for shits-and-giggles I have a thrower whose max bench is 300lb... I'll have him move 8 reps of 135, then 7 reps of 185, 6 reps at 225... now we're into his working set zone....1st working set: 255x5 2nd: 265x5 3rd: 275x4-5 DROPSET: 255x5-7??? BURNOUT SET: 225x10??? lol, bet he can't get 10... I've done my job, I've gotten his CNS tuned up to work at max capacity, gave him some volume at that capacity (add sets, start with 3 working set+drop set, move to 4, 5.....but don't go beyond 6), and I've pushed him to near muscle failure...He's gonna grow!!!! And grow he will!!! Now, obviously, bigger lifters=more warm-up sets. I spend 15min warming up...it's boring to watch, my gym owner watched me one day, he told me the only thing that kept him awake was his curiosity as to when the bar was going to snap, because he'd have to buy a new one... simple son-of-a-bitch, and he's my older cousin, never liked him, been hampering him for months to get bigger stacks on his cable machines, bigger 'bells, more 100lb plates for my leg sled because repping 1000lb, fully collapsed full extension is doing nothing for me... and those sissy 200lb stack(I add 3 of the 10lb platesto the stack for my tricep work for 8-10reps at 230lb) are doing nothing for me...IT'S STUNTING MY GROWTH DAMMIT!

    Ok, so we get the picture about properly executing the big compound lifts and WHICH lifts? Any questions, post a reply, also, youtube is a great place to reference a lot of this for further study on proper technique, although my program in it's entirety is pretty different from most peoples' you will find...it's tailored to a shot thrower, go figure, and, of course, to me as an individual(we're all different, I guarantee you will not get the EXACT same result, because....you are different).

    Time to get some sleep, shoulders and back tomorrow (remember those critical pulls?), might take 15-20 throws, I'm not in a comp phase right now, so that's ok. And I promise to post my program which you may feel free to use as a baseline for something different, just remember, constant evolution as we develop, reach peaks, hit plateaus, and break them.

    Time for sleep.

  • Thanks Dylan. Well, I'm not completely 'in the dark'. I'm asst coaching about 15 boys and girls for the HS team right now. Another concept is this: of how much more value is a thrower that people have watched come up through the college years, what I like to call the 'in-between', and the time he reaches the 'elite pro status'.....than the guy who explodes on the scene out of obscurity and is throwing 70+' to track and field? No difference to me, except for the fact that I like my privacy. You'll see (not if, but) when I do. In fact, there was a columnist for the university paper that tried to get my name, my story, everything....after I threw at the only comp I attended this winter. I just graciously decline. People look at you like you're weird. But I enjoy the anonymity, more autonomy in my daily life, keep the hoodie up, the Oakleys on, and I'm good to go. :thumbup:

    Thanks, Dylan.

    Into the afternoon, still debating on whether to do ANYTHING. Strained a left pec yesterday(non-throwing side, I think it's pec minor, it feels pretty deep, very sharp) repping 150lb 'bells for flat bench stabilization. I don't use anti-inflamatories unless I'm deathly ill. Agghhh...gonna try, if I feel the pinch, I'll just drop the bitch....my saying, applies primarily to big pressing movements and feeling rotator cuff(RC) pain, got a lot of people in my gym saying it now, 'if ya feel the pinch, drop the bitch'. Yeah, don't fool around with rotator cuffs...ok, off to play superman now, George Reeves was 'da man.

  • Ben, I've moved, Gary has my tapes and will guide you guys, he's your coach. If you have any training questions, just ask in here. There are a lot of good coaches in here, I'll help you too. Have Gary send me some tape. Yes, still training, kiddo; awesome on the 44! That's right about where I was as a HS freshman. Remember, you've still got 3 more years, little man, don't rush it. Aim for the stars, because you might just catch one! Keep training, kiddo.

  • So at the behest of a much wiser man than myself(Coach Smith), I bought a slew of light and heavy implements, as I was only practicing for the past several months with the 16# ball. I dug old 5k and 6k shots out of a storage unit and was throwing those for a week before a bunch of small heavy packages arrived at the door 2days ago (early than expected, I like early... better than 3 friggin weeks =O ).

    So, a few days ago I took some warm-up stands and half-turns with the new 14 and the 16 and to my amazement, the 14 was going as far as my 16, better than the previous week, where the 6k(about 13.3lb) was a meter BEHIND my middle ball. WAIT A SEC....hold the phone....yes, the light implement was BEHIND the middle. The trouble is, I can't really feel the weight of the 16, I just blast it, although I can 'feel' more distance there, just not happening. However, it was brought to my attention that this is actually more common than one would think. The antidote: throw the light ball. I'm hoping to see some more movement by the light ball in the near future, so I can move back to the middle, then focus on the heavy.

    This periodization of focusing on the heavy implements, then the light, then back to the middle(after having each previous ball 'move') was quite foreign to me until about 3-4weeks ago. Hopefully, I'll 'see the light' soon. I had previously read an article in which Randy Matson's coach back in the '60s said something to the tune of training his throwers strictly with a light implement for several weeks, then a heavy, then back to comp weight. Oh, yeah, lol, I'd highly recommend using Justin's glove, too.
    20-26lb implements can do a number on the hands and fingers, I'd like to keep mine :D

  • Hey all, ok, here's a short clip of a monster stand from about 6weeks ago, full speed/half-speed. The tapes I have are for the purpose of analyzing technique in high detail. Therefore, they are centered on the ring. I don't work with a coach or training partner when I throw, so there is no panning to the landing area...what'd you think, this was ESPN here? =O

    Haven't been posting much due to training, have since severed ties with coach I was working with out of NJ, taking a lot of training advice from Coach Smith and thank you very much, John. At the behest of a technically superior thrower I've known personally for over 15yrs(he doesn't compete anymore), I began overhauling my rotation technique at about this time, which has produced tremendous speed (I refer to it as whip) in the last month and gradually is producing more consistent results. In fact, I've had to slow down, because I began producing uncontrollable speed. Can you say excitement 8o ? I'll post some of those later as this meet season progresses.

    What you'll notice here is the shot is not as far back as it could be and the right leg, at the point of activation, has approximately 100degrees of bend, not 90degrees. My rationale behind this is that I operate on the basis of a 'twitch', not a grandiose squat and a full pull back. The twitch is much faster and the rate of acceleration out of the power stance, in my opinion, produces MUCH more force. Out of a deeper squat and a longer pull on the ball, this isn't possible (be nice, wouldn't it =O ). Although there will be criticism of this, what it comes down to is... are you or your throwers producing 17/18m stands? There is a reason I kept this over other deeper-bending stands... It went further by about a meter/meter-and-a-half...and I can replicate it. That's strong.

    My claim/prediction is that gaining 3-4m through the circle is probable, even likely, with consistent technique, as my former technique was based on a 'free-form' rotation. Hopefully, I'll see 21m in-comp(AND AS A REGISTERED USATF ATHLETE THIS YEAR). Currently working on half-turns and Oldfield's 'Lazy J', generally for taller throwers, as I'm just shy of 6'4"(1.93m) tall. Ever wish that shot circle was the diameter of the disc ring :cursing: ? As soon as those half-turns are accounting for ~93% of my full turns, I'll know I'm working with something special...just gotta get that little ball moving :/

    Best wishes to everyone else this comp season, maybe we'll see a few of you open seniors out there :thumbup: lol. Livin' that book Norm!!

  • At last the world sees you! Question is a practice standing throw for a rotator different than for a glider. I am saying this because I see Majewski goes very low with his left hand almost to the ground whereas you don't. Is this because the stand throw pos you are going to get into rotating is different than what you would get into with a glide.

  • Quote

    My rationale behind this is that I operate on the basis of a 'twitch', not a grandiose squat and a full pull back. The twitch is much faster and the rate of acceleration out of the power stance, in my opinion, produces MUCH more force. Out of a deeper squat and a longer pull on the ball, this isn't possible (be nice, wouldn't it ).

    Im with you on this one, its the same kind of problem in the discus. You either twitch hardcore or focus on the jump(deeper stance) you cant have both. Of course it´s different in the discus, but in this matter there are many similarities.
    Im not sure why you cant do both(okay my posts are useless) but i think it has something to do with the link between legs and the torso. Its a very hard equation. These kinds of things make the throwing events interesting, because there are many types of technique(and stories) to deliver the best result for an individual.

    Looking good! Hope you hit it big time soon!

  • Lol, yeah, I've got a gas tank, for sure, but at the same time I'm not trying to sacrifice strength. Practices lately have been on-and-off, touch-and-go...had a PR week in the weight room and with the 14#practice ball(6-8back-to-back throws worth) in one practice session... followed immediately by a sh$&ty day(today) but that's how it rolls, yeah have seen some 20+ throws but the avg is lower, as today my stands were nowhere near what they should be and legs just couldn't get a grip following half turns and fulls, but that's how it goes...pinpointing the 1or2 'good days' weekly during training cycles is what it's all about, comp in Dec I was lucky to have a stellar day, it's more work, endless hours in the gym and the ring for me. The aim here is consistency, not one uber-explosive performance...gotta have that base from which to work, only way to track progress so you can tweak your program where you need to...then figure out a different cycle for variety so you don't grow stale...I think volume is next for me. Just trying to progress and take it to that next level. Til then, keep it salty.

    • Official Post

    Hey all, ok, here's a short clip of a monster stand from about 6weeks ago, full speed/half-speed. The tapes I have are for the purpose of analyzing technique in high detail. Therefore, they are centered on the ring. I don't work with a coach or training partner when I throw, so there is no panning to the landing area...what'd you think, this was ESPN here?

    Hey @Odysseus your video is not working anymore?
    It seems that someone deleted it?

  • Hey Florian, I had a few uploaded, took them down once I started working with my coaches, not looking for publicity, just looking for other athletes' and coaches' knowledge and dropping some of my own. Big things to come this indoor season. Thanks.

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