How to train the 3 event college thrower (hammer, shot & disc). How and why can this be done.

  • I thought this may be useful in this thread.

    The first major award, the first own home and the first service for the adlt national team – Step by step it is going for Shanice Craft. A different approach she is taking for the dicisison: Is the 19-year-old discus thrower or shot-putter? The shot put has caught up due to the gold medal at […]

  • Depends on the level of competition that the athlete needs to compete at...for most efficient training teach same fundamentals in all 3 events. If possible all rotational styles would allow for best transfer of training between events. Certain shortness or longness of one event may have positive correlations to other events and so those need to be appreciated. The side strength developed from hammer throwing can cause good correlations to strong discus throws. While the aroundness in discus final could translate well to shot put finish. What correlations do you see John?

  • From what I've seen a coach has to find the right athletes who will buy into the idea that one event feeds into another. Or maybe you have to have a coach who knows how to convince her athletes that the program works.

    It's interesting to see McCall do something almost unheard of. What happened to her discus throwing this last year?

  • The main reason why you'd do three (or four) in the NCAA/ NAIA system is to score points at your conference or national championship meet. On the world class level who does it?

    @Mac Wilkins is the GOAT all-arounder but other than him? Wilkins is a special person in many ways and it looks like he was all about team at Oregon and in many ways in Montreal (go USA). I hope he can instill that attitude at the US Training Center.

    @John Godina did much of the same at UCLA with coach Venegas and for a few years post-collegiality in the SP and DT.

  • In college i try to have all my athletes do the 3 events unless there is a physical reason they cant do it. I start with a 4/2/2 system. 4 hammer workouts per week, 2 shot, 2 disc. I am looking for at least 120 hammer throws per week, 120 shot throws and 120 discus throws for starters. Hammer makes every rotational event better so their is some good cross training going on. Entrys and right foot turning has a lot of common actions between the events. Then i start training towards their best events. A shot / discus thrower will go 3 shot, 2 disc, and 3 hammer. If discus is their best event, then its 3/2/3 again. Over time the throws will build up. Jeneva would take 160 shot, 200 disc, 150 hammer per week. As a country we dont throw enough or heavy enough compared to our competition. Jeneva will throw disc again when we get this spin shot stabilized. Training center she made 8 60m + throws with her shot technique so its never far away.

    Most 3 eventers at the end of the college career will see their best event pick them and when they concentrate on one its usually takes a jump the first year out. I not a fan of specializing early because our kids sit too much, play too many video games and dont grow up doing enough physical disciplines to build their overall athletic ability. The more they throw different things the better athletes they become.

    @Sean Denard ,
    Good correlation between hammer and spin shot.

  • Rutger @Smithy threw both shot and discus last year. Depending on how Rutger was feeling and the cycle we were on dictated how much time we spent on each event. But in general early in the year we threw each event every day in a split workout, discus in the morning and shot in the afternoon. As we got into the season we would work more on the event he was going to do in any particular meet that was coming up, he did not do both events in any meets we went to. We were waiting for Worlds to do both events but as you know he got hurt in Shanghai at the end of June and that was that.

  • Germán Lauro, of Argentina I believe, Competed in the Olympics for both Shot Put and Discus this past time.

    Lauro has gone 21,26m and 63,55m; winning double gold at the 2012 Ibero-American Championships in Venezuela. In London he took 6th in the shot with a PB 20,84m and 37th in the discus at 57,54m. He only threw shot (very well at that) in Moscow.

  • The dutch Shot Putter and Discus thrower Rutger Smith for example is (right now injured) doing it on a world class level.

    ahhhhh….. the big Dutchman, of course.
    When do the Germans begin to specialize? None of these have hammer marks on the IAAF web page, so they are not doing what coach @John Smith is discussing. They may be doing hammer releases in training, but not in meets.

    Shanice Craft
    • 62.92m discus June 2012
    • 17.66m shot put Feb 2013

    Anna Rüh
    • 64.33m discus 2013
    • 16.53m shot put Feb 2012 (looks like she’s dropped it)

    Patrick Müller
    • 22.02m 5kg shot put
    • 60.20m 1.5kg discus

    Henning Prüfer
    • 21.94m 5kg shot put
    • 65.87m 1.5kg discus

  • Being a D3 coach, like @Sean Denard , nearly all of my athletes will train at least three events through the conference meet. The big goal is to score points, and the level of throws at most conferences in D3 make it a little easier for better athletes to spend less time on one or two events and still manage a high finish.
    As an athlete and coach, I think training shot/hammer/disc allows for some great correlations in training for an underdeveloped thrower. The movements in those events make an athlete really learn how to move and manipulate their body in different positions, they have to know how to react to weight changes and react to different implement positions. The timing and firing of certain muscles changes on a daily basis, improving body awareness even more. And best of all, they are still training fast twitch movement.

    We usually train one event per day. For example, a shot put practice will always have the same special and weight room exercises, the same for disc, hammer and jav. Depending on the experience and commitment of the athlete, we'll sometimes have a day or two of double sessions, either 2 events or the same event twice. Starting conference week, the athlete will begin to train only the events they are qualified in. When approaching nationals, we narrow the events to what they are close qualifying in as well.

    In regards to the NCAA level, what are the opinions on competing athletes who qualify in 3 or 4 events? Do you let them do all events, or have them compete in their best 1 or 2 events?

  • With 2 events Indoors and 3 events Outdoors, the biggest transition I have is from discus to shot put. Losing a foot of ring can be a bit overwhelming out the back of the ring, and your ring awareness can go out the window. In comparison to discus, shot put is much faster, tighter, and a bit more uptempo. I personally think that shot put can help discus A TON! But it doesn't quite work so much the other way around. On the other hand, I might be experiencing the ups and downs of training. Its very difficult to train in 3 events at a very high level. Dan Taylor was a great example of managing 3 events when he competed at Ohio State .

    :thumbup:AyeJay :thumbup:
    Michigan State University Track and Field
    Discus - 59.78m
    Shot Put - 19.93m (2014)
    Hammer Throw - 64.51m (2014)
    Weight Throw - 22.74m (2014)

  • A better question, how do you train 11 athletes in 3 events, as a less than part time coach? I
    coach at an extremely small D1 school. I hold practice, after I get off from my full time job, so 12+ hr days are nothing for me, been doing it for 12 years. Practices usually only last 2-2.5 hrs (4-6ish), depending on how the athletes do. The winter hours are tough, so I've got construction lighting and usually pull my truck up to the circle. I often wonder what it would be like to be at a program that could pay me to be full time, give me money to recruit with, and money for equipment. Luckily, I threw for the same program in college, so I know how to fix implements and create useful overweight/underweight implements in my garage.

    Since we are a small program, most of my athletes are developmental and walk ons. They have a general knowledge of an event, 1 or two are state champions, and nobody knows what a Hammer is. I spend most of our time with Hammer to begin, since most don't know it. We still alternate between the other events as well. Once we get into the actual competition season, I set up our training on a schedule of alternating days, with two days a week, working on two different events, usually Monday and Wednesday. For each athlete, I went through and counted the number of days they train in each event, with overweight and underweight training, just to make sure there's not too much of a discrepancy between each event, as well as making sure not to have 11 kids in one circle for a training session (which can be very hard). It's never exactly the same amount, but usually w/n 1 or two practices. Since I found this method and worked the kinks out, we've had some decent success, even making it to the national level.

    Even though I've been coaching for 12 years, I still try to learn and pick up from folks, as much as possible. I never had a coach in high school or college, so I'm figuring most of this stuff out on my own, but have had some help from some great coaches. If anyone has any further ideas, I'd love to hear them. Other than, go somewhere else (which I hear often)...

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