Quote from Tony Dziepak
Yes, the most intuitive explanation is that the angle at the landing height should always be exactly 45 degrees, assuming the object is not aerodynamic, and the release velocity is not related to the release angle. So since the release height is above the landing height, that angle up there is a few degrees less than 45.
What I added was that the thrower may be able to generate more terminal velocity at a lower angle due to being able to move fast across the circle and not directing force against gravity. This was also the point of the "what if" article with Bradstock when they said that baseball throwers can achieve higher terminal velocity on a horizontal throw than to throw straight up in the air due to biomechanical considerations. If terminal velocity is inversely related to release angle, then the optimal release angle for the shot will be reduced.
So the key is how efficient that deflector box is of redirecting that horizontal momentum to vertical, which is what the shot putter tries to do in the power position.
Now, Brad seems to be arguing the opposite--that one can exert more force in a vertical press than a horizontal press due to having the ground to push off against normal to the direction of the force. I think this is right, and I think this is more applicable for situations where static forces are applied, such as holding your rebound position in basketball or football blocking.
published at May 9th 2013 6:56am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Brad Reid
A good primer on the aspects, I think, that you have made here.
A baseball thrown certainly doesn't require the ground "bracing" that throwing a heavier object does, or blocking a 300 pound opponent.
In general, maybe excepting the HT, we see this clearly across the javelin, discus and shot put throws where, in that order, we tend to see more required size as the implements get heavier.
Not that there aren't exceptions. We have all seen rather large javelin throwers and small shot putters.
Anyway, I am in agreement with your thoughts that gross bulk, isolating other factors, dominates horizontally, that strength becomes increasingly important as the "angle" rises so it then becomes yet another variable in selecting an optimal release angle.
Is a thrower strong enough to release at the optimal angle? If he or she is throwing flatter for a better strike, is the power generated by being flatter a good trade off to the distance lost in the less than optimal release angle?
A real life physics experiment!
published at May 9th 2013 8:26am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Tony Dziepak
Yes, I think what the author had in mind on the Bradstock piece was that a thrower can throw a baseball horizontally with more terminal velocity than straight up because one can get a longer range of motion.
published at May 9th 2013 1:24pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Nuno
Release speed is always more important than chasing an optimal angle of release. Deviations of 3-4 deg do not affect the distance that much at all. At the same release speed, it would take a 10 deg deviation just to lose 1m in distance.
If you double the release speed, the distance would quadruple (extreme example, but you see the effect).
If your mechanics favor, for ex., the 35 deg angle, chasing a higher angle can only hurt your performance.
published at May 9th 2013 7:49pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/