"The Ring" archive entries from Aug 30th 2010

  • Quote from trkfan

    I witnessed one of your male throwers at Eastern Illinois indoor track meet earlier this year. He threw something like 59' and had a foul that looked to be around 61'. i went to congradulate him after he finished up. He told me that he only threw 46' in high school with the shot! and that he also had an injured wrist at the time too! I was really impressed with that young man. So i can say that what ever you are doing with your kids must be working greatly physically and mentally.

    published at Aug 30th 2010 1:06am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from Kap

    I've got an old issue of Track & Field News w/ a photo of Piatkowski throwing from either his WR (59.91m in 1959) or his European record of over 60m. Guy looked like a HJer. My roots go back to Polska so I have a keen eye to all throws Polish.
    He might have been the first guy to "throw his weight", more actually, measured in lbs/ft.

    published at Aug 30th 2010 1:14am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 30th 2010 1:23am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from Gary Cooper

    Al had extreme quickness. Be interesting if someone had clips of him shooting across the Ring in real time, not slowed down for analysis. I have been involved in Oly lifting since 1969 and could appreciate a thrower 2with his lifting abilities on the competition platform. at 242#.
    Today's O/L training is advanced when I know young lifters in this Country making lifts equaling those of the drug days.
    kids at 200# snatching 165kgs and C&J around 200kgs. Give some credit to better coaching, at least in that sport. I'm sure the same has been happening in coaching the throws as well. We learn by past failures, or at least should.....

    published at Aug 30th 2010 1:24am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 30th 2010 3:25am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from Torque-converter

    I think that linking drug use directly to lifting and trying to correlate that to the throws is very hard. It seems to be assumed that drugs = bigger lifts. the comparison of old versus new is a tricky one. There are distance runners and cyclists using androgens and they don't have big bench presses, cleans or squats. The application is what is realized in results. Guys that throw shot in college that are spending 85-90% of their training hours in the weight room may be able to do numbers similar to the top class athletes and do it clean. They just won't throw as far as them. Strength numbers are deceptive. I had an athlete who had similar bench numbers to nellie as a prep. Threw 67ft with the 12lb after a year of spinning and came to our school. His numbers where huge. He threw under 60ft with very big college numbers and finally got hurt lifting (torn quad). He came back after a year and lifting maybe once every other week very light and threw 64ft with the 16lb. He was fast in the ring and when his timing was good he was capable of 20m in practice. He only threw twice a week. Was a DJ at a local club so he was up all hours of the day. After his senior season, he stopped throwing and is looking for a job. I have never seen someone throw this well with as little training. We think that throwing 21m is hard but maybe it isn't as hard as we think? Maybe the average effort is misapplied. I wish that sometimes throwers didn't know who to follow as far as some facets of training. I think there are many athletes who don't really learn or discover anything for themselves and they are limited by their coaches knowledge and the restrictions that come with it. My questions is what is the easiest way someone can throw 21m? What is involved in that? I think W8coach is on the right track in looking for athletes to help answer these questions.

    published at Aug 30th 2010 3:34am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from jucs

    Some good stuff in that post! I forgot about the Bodybuilding example to pose to people. Look at todays' top bodybuilders and compare them to the 80's. Not EVEN close. Must be the trainin eh? NOT! No, it's the drug cocktails! They aren't doing ANYTHING diff today with weights...well actually they are probably training with smaller poundages than BBer's of yesterday!

    Time to wake up people and smell that coffee brewin. ;)

    Over and out

    published at Aug 30th 2010 3:36am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    Cantwell can't bp that much?
    John thesi whole debate was to give the floor to the "experts" on why the WR's have been around do long. I was going to stand back, listen to all, and come with my hat in hand if I've misinterpreted the problem. You , as always, jumped to the the "Holier than thou" platform in regards to drug. Not much in the way of drugs oput there now. Well, you can't be a little bit pregnant, John.
    Besides, strength is not the cause, or lack of it. The technique has not evolved. I put the same challenge to you. Show me video and pic evidence of tech mastery that is going on rt now and we'll talk. It is the most infinite side of a finite set of variables we have in the throws. Getting strong may be a answer but eveolving the tech is the cure. Fight me on that point.
    Mic

    published at Aug 30th 2010 4:04am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 30th 2010 4:15am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 30th 2010 4:27am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from Torque-converter

    I think the bodybuilding comparison makes it evident that the potential and knowledge for drug use today is higher but I think that this example is flawed in it's use for track and field. Professional bodybuilding is a non drug tested sport. It surely isn't a WADA drug tested sport. Not to say that this is flawless and unbeatable testing but it has evolved almost as much as the doping has. Sure drug testing is lagging but things that athletes could do even 10 years ago have changed. The potential for new drugs and ways to beat testing have increased but their application to bodybuilding is more simple and easier to experiment with. Athletes have gone from using drugs that where considered their top choice freely to using designer drugs that may have half the potential and more side effects. Things like the THG were big scandals but chemically it's far from a great drug. Considered that in 1983 the T:E ratio test was first being introduced but flawed and rarely used. This period had no OOC testing at all. OOC testing came later but was very limited based on location, leading to many of the popularized present day trainig camp locations. Eventually the T:E ratio test was backed by the isotope ratio mass spectrometry test. This test had been touted for it's potential for years but claimed it's first victims in the last few years. Our thinking has to change. Our belief that certain performances are only possible with doping is a limitation to our ultimate performance. Clean athletes and coaches are at a disadvantage physically and psychologically if their competitiors dope. If we worry about our competitiors doping, then we put ourselves at an even bigger psychological disadvantage. What if we believe someone dopes but they honestly don't. Now we have developed a psychological disadvantage based on false belief. There are many great athletes that don't dope but it doesn't matter if we only believe otherwise. Maybe the biggest advantage/ disadvantage is in our belief.

    published at Aug 30th 2010 1:27pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    I think you bring some interesting ideas and perspective to the table. I totally agree with your last sentence in that too many have not tapped the technique as far as it will go. We truly don't know what the human body is capable of in any situation. Too many jump to the strength component as it is the "Dark Side " of the force and easier to add feet to the throws. The problem is that it limits feels and stretch due to is contractive nature. Most are not evolved , technically, enough to train contraction and throw stretch.
    I don't believe there has been an athelte since the begining that truly feels doping is the way to go. It has just been a necessary evil for many and has kept it alive due to the loss of fair play. I believe that the media is responsible for many of our evils as they are double-tongued. They build up to the point they can't afford anything less than perfection and then when it goes wrong they crapon them for their decisions.
    We are truly limited , as you point out, when we don't continue to push the limits of the mind and body, naturally.
    Mic

    published at Aug 30th 2010 2:47pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

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