Quote from Brad Reid
I was actually thinking the very same thing as Norm: How far are you throwing?
Comments on your style:
1) You are very strong out of the back of the ring (the strongest element of your throws for me);
2) Your balance is great out of the back and, actually, all throughout the throw;
3) If you have a weakness, for me, it comes right at the end of the throw when you seem to spin through the release without a firm attempt to block it off, then naturally rotate through to stay in the ring.
All in all, very nice.
Not sure L. Jay Silvester could have helped you much if Jon Cole jumped you, but I bet he'd have liked to. I recall asking Silvester what he recalled about throwing against Cole at the what, 1969 Nationals, I guess???
His answer back to me was short: "Losing by an inch," or words to that effect.
It was Cole's one really big national win over a much better thrower (Silvester) who'd lap him ten times by the time L. Jay finished throwing . . . world records, Olympic medals, national championships. But, everyone loses close comps from time-to-time against lesser throwers.
published at Jun 15th 2010 2:22am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Brad Reid
The first time I saw Jon Cole lift was at a Senior National Powerlifting meet at the old Bronco Bowl in Dallas, 1971 as I recall.
Cole was not a tall guy and I don't think without weightlifting he would have been a very big guy... smallish wrists, knees, ankles, and his legs weren't all that big, but muscular all over.
Anyway, he had bulked up to around 280 lbs. and I guess he was around 5'10". He did this ostensibly to break Paul Anderson's unofficial combined 6 lift record total (Press, snatch, C&J, bench press, squat and deadlift) and he actually challenged Anderson to a competiton that never materialized.
So, at this meet, he was very heavy and I believe the bench press weight he chose for his first attempt was 540 lbs. which was given to him with a rear hand-off to a fairly medium grip, he dropped it to his chest, waited the 2 seconds for the clap to press, and he jammed the bar up but it headed back over his forehead so he ended up supporting 540 in sort of a "skull crusher" position (literally) and the bar dropped like an anchor toward his forehead and Cole pulled his head out lightning fast to avoid one big crease above his eyebrows.
It startled the spotters who hadn't had time to react, and the bar ended up sort of balanced across the bench where his head had been.
Cole comes back out and gets a credited bench press, but bombs out of the meet in the squat, as I recall. So funny... he was miles ahead of the next lifter but he just threw a national championship away by not taking a safe lift for his firsts. As I recall, this was often his peculiar style in meets.
Leap forward a half dozen years and Cole was trimmed back down to the 242 lb. class as I recall and he is going up against big Doug Young. Young beat Cole that day pretty handily but what I best recall about Cole was him sitting in a chair off stage getting ready to lift and he had his elbows resting on his knees. He had the largest veins, the most vascular forearms I believe I have ever seen even on bodybuilder types. They were about the size of #2 pencils in diameter looking like they were going to pop out of the skin.
Quite a contrast to his heavier bodyweight in 1971 where he wore a layer of obvious fat.
For the young dudes out there who don't recall any information about Cole, in his case his lifting really paid off as he was credited with a discus throw of 216' or so as a best, I believe, when that wasn't all that far off the world record.
He did this at about 5'10" in height.
published at Jun 15th 2010 2:43am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Babyhuey
The call should technically be a change, but when a correction like this outweighs not only the event but a shot at a team championship you have to let the miscue happen. A similar call was made in baseball a week ago...everyone knew that Jim Joyce made an improper call, but people make mistakes in these situations (they are only human).
I actually had a similar call go my way in a conference championship meet where my 120-130 discus thrower (senior) threw a throw that I missed because shot put was going on at the other end of the field that went 145 ft. Everyone was going crazy about the call that the official screwed up and so were coaches. In this scenario you have to try and get the athlete away from the maylay first and foremost. Considering I did not see the throw I could not make a judgment and especially it was his senior season. The official let another athlete into the finals and that thrower never threw any farther to move up from ninth. At the time it seemed like the appropriate call, but sometimes people just have to deal with it. Life sux buy a helmet!!
published at Jun 15th 2010 3:01am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from jason
if the mistake was a meter off, then finley still would've gotten 2nd. 19.68 still beats blake eaton's best of 19.57.
published at Jun 15th 2010 3:18am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Happy Thrower
Does nobody beleive in this anymore? Seriously, if you see a shot fall short of a mark and its read farther - man (or woman) the heck up and let the offical know. Sure as guns if it had gone over the line and been anounced shorter than it was there'd have been some talking.
And yes, I had a throw misscalled by an offical (2m to my benefit) and I politely said, uh Darlene, Im pretty sure that it isnt that far, it was rechecked and I got what I really threw. But Im getting older and things must have been different in my day, LOL.
published at Jun 15th 2010 8:03pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from 40Footer
What are some opinions of when a thrower peaks? Barring injury and life events when do some people think experience/tech/age all come together?
published at Jun 15th 2010 8:22pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Cralle
This is only kind of related but just a couple weeks ago, I saw Carlos Scott throw the 2kg discus 54.08 meters at age 49!
published at Jun 15th 2010 10:36pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Bill Green
Mickey Cutler has mentioned one of the worst examples of thrower ethics in cmpetition I ever saw, which I have chronicled here in the past. Mickey, I know you were there, but did you know what was really happening before my detailing the circumstances on The Ring?
Let me first be clear, I competed against Ed Burke during the second of the three phases of a remarkable throwing career (1960's, 1980's, and now as a champion and World Record-setting master hammer thrower), and I regard him highly. Ed's work with youth athletics since his second competing period, along with that of Harold Connolly, has had an impact in the development of subsequent generations of American hammer throwers. And being voted to carry the national flag in the Olympic Games is a singular honor, as is getting your career PR at age 43. His competitive record alone is enough to place Ed in the pantheon of U.S. throwers, and his ancillary involvement with the sport has been significant.
But the 1984 Nationals was not his finest hour.
The picture of the podium at the Olympic Trials two weeks later shows me with my back to Ed, and I still feel the same way 26 years since. I lost some respect for someone I looked up to, who was the age of my own father, and today I want to believe it was a singular event. But I heard stories for years from George Frenn about his mental battles with Ed, and I guess things were done a little differently in the late 1960's and early 1970's in American hammer throwing.
There is nothing unusal about engaging in psychological intimidation tactics in sports, but in this case what started as a simple attempt at a psych job turned into bold faced cheating. On My second throw at San Jose City College that day, where the throwing ring was set up with bleachers immediately to either side of the cage, I took my first wind to the right and was greeted with the face of one Edward Burke sitting immediately behind the screen right exactly where he knew I would look to begin to throw. Unnaturally close even for a spectator, two feet from the cage, sitting alone while he was supposed to be waiting for his turn in the order. No mistaking his intent.
It worked, I had a bad throw with the scar-faced image of one of my chief rivals for the title in my mind. So for Ed's next attempt I positioned myself directly behind the cage in his line of sight, close enough to be obvious but not overtly so. Oh, and I jumped up and down a bit for good measure. As the person that started the game, Ed was equally aware of my competing tactics, and had a poor throw himself. As this was the end of the second round and we both had bad results in round one, we were each in an uncomfortable spot. But Ed was in worse shape, in danger of failing to make the top twelve without a big third effort. For the next round I continued my response to the tactics, and even jumped up and down a bit more to reinforce my response.
I managed a miserable distance, ten feet under my then-AR of 245' when I was ready for a PR, finally finishing second to Jud Logan (although that order was reversed two weeks later when it really mattered). Ed had his little exercise backfire on him, as he was so preoccupied with the psycholgical gamesmanship he screwed up his third throw and was out of the final. If things had ended there it would have been just another footnote, no big deal and just another example of the complex dynamics of trying to win when the states are high.
But as we were readying for the final three rounds, the officals announced that Ed Burke, local hero to his middle aged Track and Field fans and contemporaries (and officals, I might add), would be granted a specal throw due to "crowd noise"
Ed used everything he could think of to compete that day, underhanded as well as honorable, and it still pisses me off. I would be interested to hear from any who were there how it appeared to the uninitiated.
published at Jun 15th 2010 10:48pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from 70footer
wow I had never heard that story Bill ...not sure what I would have done ....I do try to position myself so as WHATEVER happens it would not effect me ...so if the ring catches fire ..I'm ready....in this case I would let him do whatever he desires ...for me to play his game is getting the attention off me and onto him which is not what we want..whereas if I do nothing then every throw there he is thinking of me while I concetrate on my throw also thinking of me.
the story you tell is a very bad picture , and I would say no competition is worth losing your soul over , I mean how would he feel had he really upset you , competed poorly and not make the team? I for one would have NO satisfaction making a team when my main competitor was knocked out by MY own bad intentions. wow what a story to hear after all these years .....and even then you were still the best of your era ...very good Bill. I have always thought that to make the team we had to be not just prepared but overly prepared , you learned that lesson for sure.
published at Jun 15th 2010 11:33pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Norm Balke
Off season batting around some ideas:
Looking for more pull. Does anyone do the following:
Stand throws - does anyone crank your head back toward the disc on the windup? I never have, but I was wondering if anyone did as a way to ensure more stretch.
Focal point: Years ago, in college, I used this with great success. Inexplicably, I have always had it in mind and have used it with throwers only on occasion, but never as a general "thing to do". Does anyone employ this strategy?
published at Jun 15th 2010 11:34pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/