"The Ring" archive entries from May 11th 2010

  • published at May 11th 2010 4:22pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from 70footer

    great insights Andy , I really love what you say about sprinting across the circle , you defientely cleared that up for everyone ...can you expand on your thoughts about linear drive with pivots VS. rotating thru the circle....throwing has always been more of a linear approach for me but was always taught that was a weakness, that the spin is about rotational force.

    published at May 11th 2010 4:24pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from Mark G.

    Basically, yes, both legs play their role(s) in the back of the ring. The side that you or your coach prefer to cue or emphasize is your preference but each side must work in order to set up a solid PP at the front (with good foot position, knee bend, torque, and the potential for a big stretch reflex and lift through the finish/delvery).

    Again, I hope that this clarifies my previous posts. Maybe I should get another cup of coffee?

    MG

    published at May 11th 2010 4:28pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    I confused with the description. If when you ariginally said that there is a definite left leg push off but the latest description is that there is an unweighting of th left and its action is tied to the rt leg's action, at what point is there a left leg extension that facilitates a left leg drive? I hope you can see that I am one that is closer to the advocation of the latter post. Find a picture of Oldfield extending his lt leg out of the back and post it please.

    published at May 11th 2010 4:29pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    It is my opinion that the pushing or extending off of the lt leg is misconceived. This would comprimise the balance position out of the back and delay the lt leg to the front of the ring. The lowering of the the lt hip towards the middle of the ring creates the linear force of movement acroos the ring if the UB remains close to vertical. The wide rt leg counterbalances this lowering of the COG at the back and then enhaces the gravitational pull of the linear forces across the ring but its main function is to turn the body to the middle. If the last thing that leaves the ground is the lt foot and it pushes in a straight line it functionally diminishes the rotational effects of the rt leg leaving the turning responsibilities of turning the body to the UB. As the the body senses the lack of rotational forces due to the linear push of the left leg the shoulders turn and the extended left leg is left behind and the pull is diminished at the toeboard.

    published at May 11th 2010 4:37pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at May 11th 2010 4:44pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at May 11th 2010 4:54pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from Norm Balke

    I have yet to see any thrower throw like Kenton Kemeny. I think Mr. K, that on the throw that you described, your functioning of the right was already grooved in so well, that you didn't really need to think too much about it. It's sort of like when you are playing basketball and you shoot a jumper, you don't need to think about where is my elbow, am I getting proper ball rotation, etc.

    nb

    published at May 11th 2010 5:25pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at May 11th 2010 5:58pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    Andy,
    I think the beauty of this exchange in philosophies is genuine in that its overall purpose will bring us closer to biomechanical truths of the movement and not our own agendas.
    One of the things I believe is that our form is biomechanics differs from that of the true scientist as they view resultant movements as causual. As you stated about the right leg only turning after the left leg leaves the ground. The effect indicates this but the action would be very difficult at best at best in order to impart adequate force. It would be great for Dean to chime in on his movement out of the back. It has always been my position that the longer the rt leg is on the ground out of the back the more influence the UB will have on the turning of the body to the middle. If the lower of the COG out of the back creates linear force across the ring I would want my rt leg to used earlier in order to turn my body and facilitate my lt leg to the toeboard. I believe that the only part of the lt leg that gets the stretch reflex actions of sorts in the upper portion of the thigh as the lower leg should maintain its oringinal angle of bend.As the lowering lt hip and the swinging rt leg stretch the thigh away for the COG , it will reflex back to the COG as the lt foot leaves the ground. I totally agree with your position about the circle getting too small but differ in the cause. The extension of the lt leg couple by the lowering of the lt hip may carry the thrower too far across the ring.
    Oldfied said to a friend of mine after his AR,"I had a javelin block." I believe there are some similarities here. The lt arm puts the chest in a full state of stretch so that the extension of the lt leg competes the motion and the stretch reflex which facilitates delivery.
    I think you r views on the neutral nature of the UB are consistent with mine. The UB should follow the actions of the legs.
    I would also agree with your phase 5 analogy as the rt foot pivot in the middle moves teh hips to the lt leg ahead of the UB , the lt leg loads or bends slightly. As the lt leg begins to extend, it raises the body in the horizontal to vertical conversion and provides lift to the implement.

    published at May 11th 2010 7:29pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at May 11th 2010 8:12pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from 70footer

    when I trained with Mac Wilkins in 1985 I had my best season , he spent the entire year repeating ONE THING ....rotate way out over the left side out of the back , no leaning ....then use the right leg only to get to the middle , move the right leg from its position way outside of the ring and cut it in close in a circle, this should be done just like SLAMMING A DOOR ...the left leg in the meantime was to drop straight down into the center of the ring and stay there. Making for a strong HINGE to the door.
    I couldn't do it , very tough , I probably got half of the action , I was able to drop my left knee right straight down into the center of the earth and keep it there , but never got the right leg SLAM ...without leaning it just hit all my bad habits...and I instead pushed off the back as Andy said....seems to me two GREAT throwers Andy and Mac ....perhaps BOTH are correct...one sprints across , one doesn't sprint instead SLAMS a door with the right leg creating intense momentum and seperation ....?

    published at May 11th 2010 10:12pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    I have watched you over the years in SJ and on vid since I've been on the ring. I understand the sensation of driving off of the lt leg out of the back. If one is to look at your vids, it is my belief that you are infact swinging your rt leg with rotational force and not estending your lt leg as in a push off. As the forces take you across the ring and the active rt leg enhances the vaccum effect it pull youoff of your lt leg giving the sensation of a push off. I'm not attempting to contradict, only to clarify.

    published at May 11th 2010 10:52pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from 70footer

    might be Mick ....comes down to a feeling and I just know that what I experienced was NOT all that Mac was attempting to give me...when done correctly there is a very distinct feeling of SLAMMING a door shut , without the body moving in all sorts of additional forces...this SLAM SHUT throws the shot backwards and the hips rotationally forward.... a feeling of the SHOT IS THROWING ME! ya almost wanna yell BONZAI as you go across the ring. SO I didn't get all of it and would psuh off out of the back which was not part of the technique when complete

    published at May 11th 2010 11:26pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    Thanks for sharing that insight. The feeling you describe makes complete sense as the force of the lt leg squat combined with the powerful rt leg would create a tremendous pull on the stationary(at line up) shot and almost feellike it were moving backwards. The genious of what Sylvester pioneered first and then Wilkins evolved, was the use of gravity in the discus, somewhat like the unseating in the glide in the shot. I advocate this movement along with the pivoting around the COG in the middle of the ring as JP did so well. This is why I believe that it is the compilation of all of the great thrower's tech strengths that will ultimately help to build the most efficient tech. My thoughts

    published at May 11th 2010 11:38pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

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