Quote from 70footer
bruin hunter..whats up man...where is the address to Hoffas cartwheel???
forgit yer head if it weren't attached to yer shoulders...
published at Mar 28th 2008 12:24am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Bud Rasmussen
Thanks for the response, however all the credit goes to these athletes and their support groups... as the majority of them are travelling on their own dime to compete at Salinas (with several of them continuing onto Modesto)! I guess it's another case of build it and they will come... I suppose it also helps that Gerd and others had some success at Hartnell last year and we're staging the Maui series the following week so people can head directly over to the islands following Modesto, etc. Anyway, we are also thankful to USATF development for funding our core group of US throwers. Current USATF funding structure allows us to pay flight, room, and meal per diem for 4 athletes with A standard + 1 athlete with B standard (numbers increase with more A standard people)... so we're funding:
Men: Rome, Waltz, Kuehl, Malone, and Robertson
Women: Powell, Breisch, Trafton, Barnes, and Thurmond (as Aretha gets an exemption due to her maternity leave in 2007). The only other A standard athlete (Lesch) has opted out.
Perhaps others can comment with greater sense of history, but I believe that these fields might be the best/deepest to compete on US soil since Mac/Al's Big Guy Mountain Games and various Mt. Sac Relays, Jenner Classic, and Hartnell Throwers Classic fields in the 80s?! Or perhaps the Olympics of Atlanta in 96 and Goodwill Games of Seattle in 90. At any rate it should be a lot of fun to see these guys and gals go at it later this spring!
There will be some other spots to watch these top US throwers as most will follow this general schedule:
4/20 - Mt. Sac Relays, Walnut
4/24 - USATF Discus Development meet #1, Chula Vista
4/26 - Triton Invitational, La Jolla
5/2 - USATF Discus Development meet #2, Chula Vista
5/8 - USATF Discus Development meet #3, Salinas
5/10 - Modesto Relays, Modesto
5/13-16 - Maui International, Maui
5/24 - Tucscon Elite, Tucson
5/31 - Reebok Grand Prix, New York
6/8 - Pre Classic, Eugene (wDT only)
6/22 - USATF Discus Development meet #4, Chula Vista (mDT only)
PS: We've arranged for a USOC colleague of mine (female) to help with the transportation and supervision for the USATF funded group. Thankfully she is our video specialist down here at OTC and has agreed to help out with video in Salinas so I'll make sure that each throw from the competition is filmed and sent to Mac's throws video site shortly following the competition (plus we'll do the same for Maui like we did last year).
published at Mar 28th 2008 12:49am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Bud Rasmussen
Totally forgot about the annual Gary Shaw Big Thrower Classic at Hartnell College in Salinas on Wednesday, May 21.
For more information, see link below:
published at Mar 28th 2008 12:54am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Bud Rasmussen
Don't have a great answer for you here other than that is how the USATF officials from the Pacific Asssociation have always ran these discus-only meets at Salinas. However, I can't argue with their efficiency as the fields run through in about 40 minutes (which perserves more time in the optimal conditions for the throwers)... plus I've not seen/heard of any mistakes as they have roughly 8-10 officials working at the event (with 4 of them in the landing area to peg marks and retrieve implements) and communicate quickly with walkee-talkees so that they can set down a secondary mark if there is cause to and then cue the next thrower to enter the ring, etc.
Perhaps next year we can make one of the Salinas events a multi-day competition (like Maui) so that we can mark each throw and get a better idea of their overall series. Thanks for bringing this thought to mind!
published at Mar 28th 2008 1:01am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Walt S
Sounds like there are enough officials to make the peg marks work. In meets with fewer officials, I hate when they use this system. (probably because my best mark at my high school conference meet eons ago was somehow lost and I had to throw again after all the other marks were measured) I just think it sets up possible errors.
Any way, good job setting up the meets for our elite disc guys and good luck this season.
published at Mar 28th 2008 1:31am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from w8coach
I have to say this peg marking system is a silly one at best as we employ in our HS meets. They give each thrower four throws and mark only the best throws. No series and most of all, no secondary mark in the case of ties. In our HS system, dropping the three and three and reversing the order has effectively killed the competition between participants competing head to head. This type of speed up BS only takes away from the throwing events in my opinion. I know it is not your idea Bud, but the officials need to hear from all that this system takes almost as long as the marking of every throw as after each flight is completed they still have to measure. I have seen so many markers knocked down incorrectly replaced that it is ridiculous. The three and three with reversing orders needs to be standard for all flights not just the elite. We need to encourage participation not give reasons for thos on the fence to chose another sport.
published at Mar 28th 2008 1:39am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Coach Rodney
Leave it to the Pacific Association officials! Whats the justification of pegging? Is it to save time? And I believe that is the case. With 8 officials pegging is not professional. Like Mickey says, what happens if there was a tie? You go to the second best throw and where is that peg. Shame on our Sport/Event IF we really go to pegging. OH, WAIT....SOMEONE CORRECT ME ON THIS ONE! DOESN'T THE RULE BOOK SAY THAT THERE SOULDN'T BE ANYTHING IN THE LANDING AREA AS A MARKER? A THROWER USING A PEG COULD BE A MARKER!? GET THE BLASTED RULE BOOKS OUT. I knew the short stubby officials in the Pacific Association wrote the books! Vote for NO PEGS!
published at Mar 28th 2008 2:05am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from w8coach
The reverse order competition is what makes it fun to compete. Mike, sick the gorrilla on the Pacific Associationm!!!!!
published at Mar 28th 2008 2:14am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from w8coach
I'm with Mike L. here as the rules on page 12 clearly distinguish the pegs as illegal. By offering six throws as the "olive brach" is still in conflict with the rules. In an attempt to play the middle ground the fundamental pusuit of true competition is lost by using markers. What make the mile, the 100 meters and all of the other events exciting is having competitors pushing each other to the finish in front of the crowd. Going back to the system of ranking the throwers by entry distance, separating by flights if necessary, giving three measured throws, reversing the order for three final thorws is the closest way to enjoy the same high-energy competition in the throws. Let's do what is right for the events and not just what makes officials and meets promoters happy.
published at Mar 28th 2008 4:13am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from KSCTHROWER
Sedykh Told me face to face last year the reason he didnt throw with 4 turns is because he didnt see a purpose. He could throw just as far with 4 as 3. With no benefit.. There no reason to add an extra step which allowed less room in the circle. Also the more complex the more chance for error.
With that. Has anyone ever looked at Andrey Skvaruk and Vadim Devyatovskiy's 4 turns.... Their winds are incredibly slow and the first turn.. well anyone could move as faster then them on their first turn.... Their first turn allows them to sit back on the hammer once it reaches 0 and allows them to PUSH the F out of the hammer for the final 3 turns...
My feeling is the both of them proabbly can throw just as far with 3, but the 4 turn tech just makes them for Consistent and in a better position to go from 10mph to 80mph in a split second.
Whats everyone think, This is a Video I just made of myself doing 3 turns and then doing 4 turns... Being a Smaller guy.. 5'10 200lbs.. I need that 4th turn to get to full speed otherwise my technique falls apart trying too Hard.
published at Mar 28th 2008 4:37am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Tony Dziepak
There are a lot of things we do in many meets that are not by the book. Many meets have seeded flights (i.e. last flight are the top throwers) even though the flights are supposed to be "drawn by lot."
We use pegs in our all comer's meets. I think pegs are appropriate in these meets and any meet where you have a great variance in performance levels, and masters, open, and youth throwers, male and female in the same flight, so the main competition is against yourself--not the others in your flight. In this case, pegs facilitate the greatest participation in a given amount of time. Pegs are nice because you can see if you exceed your best mark so far, so officials can ignore inferior throws.
Certainly in championship meets, I would like to see flights and whole series measurement by the book.
Rule #180.12 says no flags or markers in the landing sector, and
Rule #180.4h says all fair attempts ...should be measured immediately after each attempt (should, but not must)
Not sure if they mean regular distance marker signs (should be outside the foul lines), or athletes don't put target towels or other junk in the sector, or marking the throws with pegs. We paint distance arcs--is that a marker?
And I think there is some rule somewhere that says the Games Committee can agree to different rules before the meet begins.
published at Mar 28th 2008 5:05am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Tony Dziepak
Sedykh's argument makes sense after you have tried the 4-turn technique for a year.
On the other one hand, my beginner high school shot putters and discus throwers can say the same thing about standing throws. "What's the point with doing the spinning if I can throw just as far with a standing throw? It is also much more consistent."
published at Mar 28th 2008 5:11am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from MAC
macthrowvideo.com should be back online Sunday morning.
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published at Mar 28th 2008 9:26am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from CoachW
From personal experience as someone who went from 3 turns to 4 turns with no multiple turn background, it takes more than a year to adjust to the rhythm of 4 turns. Thats why as a coach I advocate doing many many turns at one time so that 4 seems better than 6 and if you are having promblems with 4 go to 3, but eventually back to 4 with a much smoother transition than if you are strictly 2 turns, then go to 3 adn then after years go to 4. I feel beginners must move to multiple turns as soon as they learn how to turn. Logically prepare for more turns for more speed, but practically be ready for less turns if you cant handle 4 turns currently. I wouldnt dis 4 turns permanently but rather keep it as an option in the future. If Litvinov got the famed 290 warm-up in a meet would be having this conversation? Or would it be like the shot put where we know one can throw far with the glide but more people are doing the spin so that becomes the only viable option. Glide is as viable as the spin and 3 turns is as viable as 4 and vice versa so on, ad infinitum. Each athlete has to find the right combination of factors. Its late and I am verbose.
published at Mar 28th 2008 9:42am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/