Quote from jsalexanderson
Which would you rather have in the shot put, or any event, the Olympic Gold Medal or a World Record?
published at Feb 28th 2008 12:15am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from PowerTrainer
What are the pros and cons to doing the push press in front of the body as opposed to behind the neck? I want to save my rotator cuffs from injury again so I steer clear from behind the neck movements, but I hear behind the necks are better for shot putters. An old buddy of mine, Dave Caster, said the Germans and Europeans did all behind the Neck Jerks. I have not heard from Dave in a very long time, but his knowledge was vast.
published at Feb 28th 2008 12:41am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Hunter
I think now all the top throwers spin, including bigger guys like Cantwell and Taylor, the glide is essentially dead in the U.S. The chances of a one in a million athlete that can't spin but can glide 70'+ are very small.
I think the only decent glider the U.S. has produced in 15 years was Silvester who threw "only" 66'-67'
published at Feb 28th 2008 12:49am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from MAC
The value of peaking for the Olympic Games is evident in past Olympic shot put competitions. Apparently, there was a singular mission with these throwers to be at their best for the Olympic competition. I don't believe it was luck. In the past 9 Olympic men's shot competitions since Munich the "non favorites" were successful 44% of the time. Will there be a surprise win in 2008, hard to tell but we should be on the look out.
Władysław Komar - 1972
Vladimir Kiselyov - 1980
Arsi Harju - 2000
Yuriy Bilonoh - 2004
published at Feb 28th 2008 12:52am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from tomsonite
I think thats a problem with the US having so many dominant shot putters, it seems like every one of our top guys competes a lot throughout the season because they want to remain on top the entire year. It seems not too many guys focus on ONLY the Olympic trials and Games themselves, and as a result, they are tired when they get to the games.
I'm not saying silver medals, bronze medals, or even making the finals is not an incredible accomplishment in itself, but it just seems like its hard to peak to be at your absolute best when you compete hard from January to August.
published at Feb 28th 2008 1:12am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from tomsonite
Mykyta Nesterenko broke his own world age record by throwing the 2k disc 62.83m. A pretty incredible throw for this early in the year.
published at Feb 28th 2008 1:16am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from PowerTrainer
If the glide were actually taught properly or even taught at all in the US you would see more people doing it on the elite level. I think this talk of having to be a powerhouse to glide is ridiculous. From what I saw of Dan Taylor at Millrose I'd say he could be a good glider, some people aren't cut out to rotate and some are. But, I think it may be easier to throw further from a spin when talking about a large percentage of athletes.
published at Feb 28th 2008 1:24am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Brad Reid
In the past, perhaps now too, there was the criticism in many Olympic sports that the need to peak at a Trials too close to the Games made it difficult for our athletes to do their best at the Games. But, not peaking for the Trials left one vulnerable to missing an Olympic team spot where a later, well-timed Games peak would be of little use.
I recall Bob Bednarski staying home, our number one heavyweight weightlifter over the course of 1967 and 1968, but he didn't make it to big show-down with Leonid Zhabotinsky, the Russian Bear in Mexico City. A moment lost to history, I guess.
Instead, on the day of the competition, as I recall, Bednarski pulled in and jerked some tremendous weight... 501.5 lbs. comes to mind... at the York Barbell Club, not in Mexico City where he was destined not to be.
I am not asking for us to conduct a poll or anything formal here, but I wonder what others think of how the Trials should be placed in relation to the Games, time-wise. Too, would most prefer it to be based on a single event, or a point system based on a collection of data over the year?
The one thing that comes to mind favoring a single trials outcome is that the event certainly exposes the athletes to tremendous pressure, similar to the Olympics themselves, so you get to see who manages the emotions of big meets the best in a manner of speaking.
My guess is most of the athletes like the single trials. Certainly, the "long shots" want that one chance to get off a big throw and move into the top 3 whereas they are probably pretty certain not to out-point the big guys over a series of meets building up points. I guess the top 3 to 5 throwers, too, prefer a single contest, but I don't know.
Anyway, Bednarski sat home... it happens. Others have too.
I have always wondered what would have happened if Oldfield would have been sent home, you may recall it was considered, and he was replaced in 1972 by the alternate... Randy Matson, the 1968 shot champion. Would Matson have gotten a big push from sort of an adrenaline rush being called on in such a short time frame?
Here's hoping our best throwers all make it to the Games... whomever they are...
published at Feb 28th 2008 1:37am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Tony Dziepak
I am not a certified trainer, but I believe that behind the neck is OK if the grip is sufficiently wide, and the athlete does not have any prior shoulder history.
Sufficiently wide would mean intermediate between clean grip and snatch grip.
Still, I think clean-grip in front of neck is most applicable to shot put. If your athlete can do more weight or prefers the behind-neck with the intermediate-width grip, it is probably because he gets more bar contact with the traps in the drive than he does with the shoulders. Make sure the drive is transferred to the bar via the shoulders, and that the bar is not just floating in the arms.
Also a snatch-grip behind the neck push press is a specialty exercise I think good for discus throwers. More emphasis on the shoulders, but must perform with less weight at that grip width. I would do front-PP as the primary lift, and then do optional snatch-grip behind the neck as an auxiliary on another day.
published at Feb 28th 2008 1:45am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from muller
I really feel like the glide gets absolutely crap. I still think it is a very fine technique and certain athletes could definitely succeed with the glide or the spin. It is much easier based on certain temperaments of athletes and probably a bit more consistent.
To be honest, I have always thought that Dan Taylor should be gliding. The dude is an absolute monster and after I heard he hang cleaned 451 back a few years ago and looking at his spin technique, he could easily glide as far as he spins. I also feel like anyone who can jump through the roof would succeed as a glider. Karl Erickson comes to mind but he is also a beast of a spinner. Just thought I would throw my two cents in. Also, I still think Justin Clickett is going to go 20+ so we will see what he can do with the glide in the coming year.
published at Feb 28th 2008 2:16am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Tony Dziepak
Pondering my last post in the restroom, thinking about Brian Oldfield, I have second thoughts about front push press being more applicable to shot put than behind neck push press.
In Brian's spin shot, he emphasizes holding the shot back, almost behind the ear, and thinking of a behind-neck press delivery so that it is connected to the spine.
well, behind-neck PP is certainly more aligned with the spine, so that is a second reason that the drive may be more powerful. But the press portion is weaker due to intermediate grip. And if you go to snatch-width grip, even though the vertical displacement is reduced, you need to lower weight because the arms are at a lower mechanical advantage at the pressout.
Also the elbows might be more out than in in the behind-neck--which is relevant to elbow position in shot.
You got me thinking. Anyone else have thoughts?
published at Feb 28th 2008 2:24am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Coach Rodney
"World records can always be broken and forgotten, but an Olympic gold medal is something that is yours forever."
Well almost true, Some have lost the gold medal recently, ouch !!!
published at Feb 28th 2008 2:27am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from John Smith
I tried Dan on the glide when he first came to Ohio State. Gliding for him was horrible. It takes a very strong pound for pound athlete to glide far with a huge standing throw. At 18 meter stand thier is no future in the glide. On the other hand i tried Connie on the spin and that didn't work eithier. She was good at the glide because her bodyweight to strenght ratio is the same that Dan's is right now. That is what makes a good glider. Same reason Kumbernuss was made into a Glider and not a discus thrower even though she threw 66 meters at a young age. Same reason they did not make Wyludda a shot putter when she was a 66 footer at a young age.
Good gliding is driven by bodyweight to strenght ratio's and big standing throws. If Dan could glide far he would be gliding but his glide was only about 4 feet better than his stand.
published at Feb 28th 2008 2:52am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
Quote from Coach Mac
Viking...we are well on our way too 20-questions...LOL
YOUR RESPONSE is INTRESTING to say the least:
I'D BE WILLING TO BET THAT YOU ARE NOT IN THE LINE OF FIRE (AKA-ON A PAD SOMEWHERE ) SPENDING 40 + HOURS A WEEK DEVELOPING THROWERS AT ANY LEVEL ?
ON ANOTHER SITE THEY ARE CONVINCED YOU ARE AN EX-DDR SHOT PUTTER. I RAN INTO SOMEONE WHO SAID YOU ARE A MIDDLE AGED THROWING FAN FROM NORWAY ?
PERHAPS WE CAN PLAY 20-QUESTIONS AND TURN THIS INTO A FUNDRAISER FOR CANTWELLS NEW 128-MM SHOT SO HE CAN BREAK THE INDOOR WR ?
I am in the line of fire but with far less hours a week,having a group of few and councelling another few,most of who will be in the Olympics this year and some were in the last.I also have participated in Olympics final.Northern descent and half name.All i can say.
Have a great day Coach Mac.
Very amicable I must say.
SInce you were in the Olympic final and are from a Nordic country we can assume a couple of things. You OLBVIOUSY paid the price of training and rose too the HIGHEST level of competition and you are giving back to your sport through coaching ...good stuff.
Can I ssume that you went too more than one Olympics and did you serve a drug suspension ? Is that "perhaps" why you get so inflamed over this issue ?
Best- Coach Mac
published at Feb 28th 2008 3:49am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/