These are the posts from "The Ring" archive on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/ from day Oct 31st 2007
"The Ring" archive entries from Oct 31st 2007
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Quote from brown
My mum is in Amsterdam??
I guess that Jess is old enough to be my mum anyway, so that's not so bad!
published at Oct 31st 2007 12:00am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from hopefullthrower
Hey Ron, just a quickie, years of throwing (modestly) and coaching (somewhat more successfully) Hammer shot discus, I am now doing highland games myself, apart from the basic training methods for strength, and practising throwing, is there any other weight training suggestions you have to make, any training methods out side T & F throwing that you found works,
PS thanks for the good insights, like many on the ring, I am open to learning from good people.published at Oct 31st 2007 12:04am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from CanuckHTDisplay More
Does anyone have current and reliable contact information for Dan Pfaff?
If so please email me at speedandpower@sasktel.net
Thanks all!published at Oct 31st 2007 12:35am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from Hank SlamDisplay More
Leo,
Train with implements that are similar to the ones you will use at a specific HG. For example; I made a large round stone out of a #5 soccerball. Removed a small leather panel and filled it with cement. It weighed about 25-26 lbs. and was my training stone for Stone Mountain and Pleasanton.
If throwing weights with "D" handles, train with "D" handles. If round handles, train with them.
As for as favorite exercises go, I always thought Snatch grip deadlifts with a shrug/heavy were good for HG's. Also cleans and hang cleans (caber power), power pulls too. I always thought highly of power squats and benches because of my Power Lifting backround.
I hope you remember that you should really explore what works for you and discard what is unnecessary.
Ronpublished at Oct 31st 2007 12:36am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from long&loud07
Just because you ride a sears tractor doesnt mean you cant give the correct spelling of a legendary tractor.
published at Oct 31st 2007 3:25am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from dropping bombs
Has anyone on this board had success with performing good-mornings? I'm a hammer thrower and am curious if prolonged use of this exercise can be beneficial or if it will just result with lots of mornings with a tight back.
-npublished at Oct 31st 2007 8:10am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from Coach Mac
published at Oct 31st 2007 9:12am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from Coach Mac
go too the video in the upper left....wroth watcxhing...it might be 200-yards ...LOL Mac~
published at Oct 31st 2007 9:15am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from GMH454Display More
Dr B. includes them in his book on Long Term Training of Throwers, I use them around 1/3rd of the year once a week, (doing them now wide stance seated round back)
Can do them straight leg
bent leg
round back
straight back
standing
seated
narrow stance
wide stance
personally I use wide stance standing and seated, both with back round, it does not tighten hammies as much, and works the glute rotators (my description - due to limited anatomical knowledge).
Used them when Ol, as a kid, when PLing as a Sr, and now throwing weight as a master.
Oh yeah heard Sedykh used them as well as deads. May explain how such a "weak" hammer thrower (others not me 160kg power clean)
was so strongpublished at Oct 31st 2007 9:39am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from muller
Mr. B has good mornings at a light weight. No heavier than about 10-15k at most. I am also not sure if Yuri ever deadlifted or if he did, I doubt he deadlifted more than 140k at a time after the age of 24-25. Perhaps I am wrong. I am sure he probably never cleaned more than 140k after that age.
published at Oct 31st 2007 10:25am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from discusdocDisplay More
Below are some interesting email conversations between me (Tom Fahey), John Powell, and biomechanics professors Stuart McGill, Jackie Hudson, Duane Knudson regarding spinal mechanics in the discus.
This topic is important to all throwers because proper use of the spine will maximize power and minimize back and neck injuries.
Dear Stu,
I had some interesting conversations with John Powell (4 time Olympian
and former world record holder) and Jackie Hudson (our local biomechanist) regarding fixing the spine during the discus throw. John agrees with you. He said that good weight lifters fix their spine during the Olympic and power lifts (i.e., squat, dead-lift, clean, and snatch). He reasoned that if the hip hinge produced the most force in
weight lifting then it should also maximize force in the throws. He made sure to maintain the lumbar lordosis during the throw and to maximize the rotation throughout the throw by moving the feet
continuously. He feels that back problems of some elite discus throwers are due to inappropriate spinal motions during the throw.
Dr. Hudson, on the other hand, felt that segmental contractions in the
spine were critical to producing maximal force. Many throwers use this
technique, but many also have back problems.
Frank Katch took some films of Annika Sorenstam (one of the top female
golfers) during a recent trip to Norway. She uses very little spinal
rotation but uses her legs and hips very effectively.
Tom Fahey
Thomas Fahey, Ed.D.
Exercise Physiology Laboratory
Dept. Kinesiology
California State University, Chico
Chico, CA 95929-0330
Tom,
I have measured the 3D spine motion in a number of good athletes.
Of course there are always the freaks who seem to get away with extreme
spine loads but generally, when they contract muscles explosively the spine is close to neutral. In the discus the idea is to relax and then "pulse" at key times during the windup. At the time of the pulses, and the final explosion, the hips generate the power and the torso becomes "stone" (you may have heard me say previously that you can't push rope but you can push a stone). The torso transmits the explosive impulse to the shoulders with minimal energy leakage (leakage comes with movement and loss of
stiffness).
This is true for golf, jumping, lifting etc etc. Power (force times velocity) in the spine leads to injury. That means that one can have high force in the spine but the motion must be low to minimize spine power. Likewise if there is high velocity then the force must be low. Power is generated at the hip.
What do you think of the hip airplane in the DVD - that has to help discus when performed with rapid repetitions!
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Stu
Stuart McGill, PhD
Professor of Spine Biomechanics, and,
Chair, Dept. of Kinesiology,
University of Waterloo
519-888-4567 ext 36761
Tom,
Thank you for the interesting forward.
Unfortunately, the spine is quite complex and the forward dynamics or EMG-driven biomechanical models that are used to predict forces within a linked system like the spine do not perform very well in ballistic/dynamic conditions. It is likely given the small spinal motions and large muscle activations in the phase of throwing you are
interested in, means that the spine does behave more like a stiff segment/spring transferring energy from the hips to the upper extremity.
Your hypothesis of discus throwers trying to "muscle" the throw with trunk muscles also sounds plausible given the larger inertia of a
straight arm and discus.
The complexity of the anatomy and connective tissue components of the
spine, along with the many motion segments means that there will not likely be studies to answer your question for quite some time.
I would encourage your coaching colleagues to avoid terminology like "fix" to describe this approach. The spine is not going to be perfectly rigid, nor is it going to be perfectly loose and sequentially coordinated. The idea needs to be presented to avoid the extremes of interpretation.
Duane
Duane Knudson
Biomechanics Laboratory
Dept. Kinesiology
California State University, Chico
Chico, CA 95929-0330published at Oct 31st 2007 11:07am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from TheManWithNoNameDisplay More
I had my surgery in August. I was off work for 4 weeks. If I had a desk job or such, I could have been back in two.
I didn't do any weight training for about five weeks, and when I did start, it was very light.
I hope you really didn't go under the knife. Now, the surgery is done laproscopically. A 6" piece of mesh is inserted under your lower ab to offer support and promote scar tissue growth.
The first few weeks are hell. Had to sleep in a recliner, bending over was very painful. And sneezing and coughing about killed me!!
TMWNNpublished at Oct 31st 2007 1:11pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from Bigfoula
cant you just go get a cream for gilmores groin? its nothing to be ashamed about, chemists deal with that sort of stuff all the time, or you can get some online http://www.gilmoresgroin.com.uk
published at Oct 31st 2007 6:51pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from brown
They give me cream to permanently keep me swollen (it makes me feel better about myself), but apparently that is an unrelated issue.
published at Oct 31st 2007 9:49pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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Quote from Mike KoenningDisplay More
NEW ARTICLE: Core Conditioning and Medicine Ball Ab Training for Throwers
Check out the new article and how-to videos!
Get some ideas on how to supplement your training with this article form Andrea. Enjoy!published at Oct 31st 2007 11:17pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/
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