"The Ring" archive entries from Oct 25th 2007

These are the posts from "The Ring" archive on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/ from day Oct 25th 2007

Quote from Brad Reid

Well, for sure, the shot rises after it is released as long as any positive angle is applied, but absolutely no if 70footer means the angle of the shot increases.

Whatever the angle is at release, the angle from the horizontal, as soon as the shot leaves the tips of the finger and has its initial angle established, guess what shows up? Gravity. The shot's horizontal speed will remain constant throughout the throw (except for an almost immeasurable amount of wind drag), but gravity's pull is squaring over time. 9.8 meters per second per second.

I have actually seen exactly what Rob is describing, but I think of it as an illusion where the arm strike itself may be a little lower than the actual release angle after the finger roll. The angle we apply to the shot flight for calculation's sake is the angle it leaves with as it exits the fingers.

I haven't checked Glenn's calculator, but play around with it to work these sorts of things out.

Brad

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published at Oct 25th 2007 2:08am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from w8coach

The funny thign Jayess is that you missed my choice. I stated that eventhough horizontal seems obvious, I chose the vertical. Read my reply carefully and you'll see that we agree this time!

published at Oct 25th 2007 3:51am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from jayess

I guess it had to happen sooner or later. Maybe I just haven't been reading your stuff closely enough all along.

published at Oct 25th 2007 3:55am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Tony Dziepak

1) Answer: vertical component, assuming two throwers of equal power, but one is heavier by carrying an extra #10 of core weight. I think of the approach phase (glide or spin) as generating horizontal momentum in the implement-thrower system. Although the heavier athlete will have slower speed across the circle, momentum equals mass times velocity, so both athletes generate equal momentum. Then in the power phase, the thrower translates some of the horizontal momentum into vertical lift. In that task, the heavier athlete has a disadvantage because this involves lifting bodyweight with the implement (until the arm strike), which is working against gravity.

2) Sort of overlaps 1), but more power increases the vertical component, and more body mass detracts from vertical component. The reason: the thrower is imparting forces against the circle surface. The answer would be different if the thrower were floating in space--in that case, more body mass would make the vertical component of release velocity (relative to a fixed point in space) greater.

published at Oct 25th 2007 3:56am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from w8coach

Sometimes I am a little long winded!!! We'll either be both wrong or both right!!!

published at Oct 25th 2007 3:58am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from msuthrower

Does anybody have any men's shot put footage from the 2006 USA Indoor Championships? (Of all athletes)

Thanks,

Steve

published at Oct 25th 2007 5:18am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Viking

1)The horizontal.The bigger bodyweight would present more difficulty in accelerating and blocking and the acceleration/decelleration curves would be more gradual than it would be for a lighter thrower.Regardless of leg strength.
The vertical component is more affected by leg strength compared to bodyweight and many times a heavier thrower can create much more lift to the shot.

2)For both vertical and horizonatl compinents ,power affects release velocity the most.You can stand with the body motionless and create a 12m/sec speed of the implemnt ,which is only 2.5m/sec away from WR status and can only be added by bodyweight.
But if we look at the vertical component independently,it's about turning the horizontal to vertical and rotational or else we would have a foul throw.

published at Oct 25th 2007 6:13am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from flyzguy

1. I would imagine the horizontal force would be more effected by mass due to conservation of momentum. When you push the shot, it pushes back, and leans the thrower back ever so slightly. Newtons law in motion. The bigger you are, the less you move back, and the more the shot accelerates. When pushing up in the vertical plane, you have the ground beneath you to prevent this loss of energy during delivery.

2. Power is more important than mass in the vertical acceleration phase. The heavier you are, the more you have to spend energy lofting your own mass.

published at Oct 25th 2007 7:16am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Christian Salas

I don't have any to sell but I've found the cheapest NEW good bumper plates are from Glen Pendlay:

http://store.wfwclub.com/plates.html

Important is free shipping, which can really sky rocket the price otherwise. I've read on the "Power and Bulk" forums that they're well made, compared to some other bumper plates.

$99 for a pair of 10k's.
$133 for a pair of 15k's.

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published at Oct 25th 2007 7:20am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from mckeen

Shu (that you, Terry?),

...but I wish Bondarchuk had said, "spinach."

Jay

published at Oct 25th 2007 10:38am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from king

I have been working with my teenager on the shot with weights.
What do you think is the single best upper body exercise for increasing distance. My guess is dumbell incline press. any thought
appreciated. Mike

published at Oct 25th 2007 12:29pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from muller

I would say throw heavier, or do speed benches with very very light weight 40-50 pounds. Do 5-7 reps at a very fast rate, similar to the velocity of a shot release speed.

published at Oct 25th 2007 12:33pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from 49erThrower

i would say the clean and jerk. More explosive thrower equals a better thrower. Incline bench is a slower movement, still important, but not the best. I think moving a heavy weight very fast would help in the shot more than a big bench, incline or otherwise. Just my opinion, any thoughts?
Andrew

published at Oct 25th 2007 5:44pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Hank Slam

Al had this wooden incline bench that he had to sit on his butt, on the floor to do his DB Incline presses on. even in front of the TV! It certainly was one of his favorites. It looked as though it was something that he had built, and had had it for awhile. But let's also keep in mind he was a National Champion Oly lifter and "jerks" were also in his program. I dont recall him being a big bencher but since I was, it would get dicussed. He said something about doing bench presses down to your clavicle and back up, with your hands turned outward to simulate the angle of the elbow when throwing the shot.

Oldfield liked the "Neider Press", never actually seen him do these. Perhaps a memory from an earlier time before I trained with him. Bench press with a bounce and a pad, and front squat on his toes (heels elevated)performed in a rack, almost like a "smith machine". It was actually a Power Rack and he would just run the bar up against the rails to aid his balance. He did his "pulls" in the rack too. Same way. It was all "work" for him. Body-building for throwing he would say. A way to "load" the body full of work. He was in his late 30's at the time. Please remember he threw over 70' at the age of 40, and had set the American record at the age of 38, 72' 10 3/4" @ the Jenner Meet. Remember he said on National TV "live" with Bruce Jenner himself, "I HAD A THROWGASM !!!" NBC couldn't edit, it was live and Jenner fell apart laughing !!!!!!

Ron McKee
Los Gatos High School
Throws Coach

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published at Oct 25th 2007 8:52pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from MAC

The Oldfield interview is always worth another look and laugh.

http://macthrowvideo.com/1984OldfieldInterviewAR.wmv

[Blocked Image: http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u33/MACTHROW/1984OldfieldInterviewARP.jpg]

MAC

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published at Oct 25th 2007 9:58pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from w8coach

The concept of the hand turnedout was to protect the shoulder joint as well. Al was a pioneer in our sport and I don't think receives enough credit for his efforts as he wasn't an Olympic Champ. I also remember Brian throwing the pud with the discus spin at SJ State. An effert tht bought him the biceps tear, I believe prior to the AR of 72'-9 3/4" at the Jenner. Do you remember the Two Big Guys Valley Games?? Seems like yesterday. I still have the photo somewhere. We should run that meet.
Mickey Cutler

published at Oct 25th 2007 10:18pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Kap

I'm working on a late May/early June date here in NC for a throws/party weekend meet along the lines of the 2 Big Guys meet. Could be called "2 Medium Guys Forest Fling".... SP, DT and JT at my private facility here in the central NC woods, hammer at UNC facility. Open to Men & Women (there will be standards....this will be a high level meet) and working on some historical elite throwers to attend.
I'll keep posting as things progress.... interested sponsors can email me. Should have local TV coverage as well- the guys who did the "Carrboro Javelin Man" pieces.

published at Oct 25th 2007 10:38pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from slug

Trying to figure out whether to continue doing clinics that I have put on over the last two years.

I have put on SP and DT clinics, free of charge, to coaches and athletes in Vermont over the past two years. They fall on consecutive Saturdays in the beginning of April. The first year I had great attendance at both (between 40-50 at each session). Last year, however, I got 10 at one and 5 at the other.

My conundrum is this: I don't want to continue to sacrifice my athlete's practice time early in the season if no one is gonna be there. On the flip side, I also want to provide information to athletes and coaches in Vermont, since there are less than 10 'throws-only' coaches.

Need to decide where to go with this, and since I value your collective opinion, I thought you could help out.

Thanks,

Jeremy Hammond
Essex High School
Essex Junction, VT

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published at Oct 25th 2007 11:10pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from LetItRip

Hi Jeremy...

I think you answered your own question Your time is valuable, and so is your own throwers. I would put it out there, with a deadline. Timing is everything of course, but i think we are seing results of the information age. If you noticed, GILL canceled their discus symposium for the same reason. More and more people are able to get information via the web, so where they once probably would have gone to a clinic, today they might defer because they have info available to them.

Of course i dont think theres a comparison, but its the way it is. I think for a camp to draw a good number of athletes these days, it has to feature some well know throwers, speakers, or just well liked people in general. Same token, when having a camp in a specific area, once campers have attended the camp previously, they have to have a REASON to come back.

You have to make it appetizing for them to want to return, when most will feel like i have been there done that, and maybe even try another camp..

That was my thinking a few years ago, sending the kids to Powell.. the next time it made sense to send them to ironwood, to get a different perspective and meet some different people.

Good Luck..
Mike

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published at Oct 25th 2007 11:39pm on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/