"The Ring" archive entries from Oct 12th 2007

These are the posts from "The Ring" archive on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/ from day Oct 12th 2007

Quote from Norm Balke

Using John Smith's 12% figure, here are the projected distances for the Big 5 US throwers:

Cantwell 24.79, 81'4"
Nelson 24.76, 81'3"
Godina 24.40, 80'0"
Hoffa 24.32, 79'9"
Taylor 23.74, 77'10"

Here are some adjusted "clean" distances:

Barnes 20.81, 68'4"
Toth 20.38, 66'9"

Interesting.

nb

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published at Oct 12th 2007 1:07am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Montana

I coach at a small high school and our requirements say that there has to be 1 coach per 15 - 20 athletes. This is due to cover your a** liability. In the day of lawsuits against teachers/coaches you have to C.Y.A. and talk and write letters to administration and board members stating that it is a safety issue. (Cannot supervise in a safe manner). Not to say that you are not capable of supervising 30 - 40 throwers. If your school does not cut and you would like too, the safety issue is always a point to make with administration. 3 things could happen. 1. Hire another coach 2. Allow you to make cuts 3. They do nothing, someone gets hurt and it

published at Oct 12th 2007 2:00am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Turg

While I was student teaching I coached at a small town in Wisconsin helping out with their middle school program. I found out that normally the school had 2 to 5 throwers out a year. It was my goal to get as many people throwing as possible. All spring semester I talked about how fun it is to be a thrower and I ended up having 45 to 55 kids each day for throws practice. The most difficult thing was safety specially with 7th and 8th graders.

I spent a majority of my time with the students throwing towels, softballs, and other stuff I found because we had one discus and one shot put per gender. It was a fun time except the pure numbers were hard to handle. I understand some high schools with high participation rates need to cut to a manageable number. However, I feel it also depends on the philosophy of the school district. If extracurricular sports are meant to aid in the educational mission of the district cutting students negates your mission.

If you team is located in a larger area and have access to college students. Many college students especially education or p.e. majors will volunteer to coach plus you can have a cool title as head throws coach and have a couple of assistant throws coaches.

Just some thoughts but I have not coached high school students.

Mike Turgeon

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published at Oct 12th 2007 2:04am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from JRapp

I was there before the cuts and there were plenty of F-Bombs. Plus, a garbage can or two took quite a beating. In High School, cuts made based on attitude are far better than cuts made based on distances thrown. If that were the case I would have been long gone my freshmen year.

published at Oct 12th 2007 2:46am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Hunter

good post, but didnt Toth and Miknevich get busted for using drugs?

published at Oct 12th 2007 3:13am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Hunter

18.94m + 2.3m = 21.24m!!!!

Nelson and Bilonog would have tied for 2nd!!!

My parents are going to be so proud!!!

Kemeny

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published at Oct 12th 2007 3:21am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Viking

Well...

Toth was never caught using drugs,so he must have been clean.And he was not tested after the 22,67 throw so he must have been clean there too.

And Mikhnevich...he was caught using in Edmonton where he threw 20.42 ,so it's 20.42x0.88=17.97 if he was clean that day...but of course he came back after 2 years of cleanness and threw 21.69 which of course is 21.69x1.12=24.29!!!

So...another 6,5 meters for him after a good clean 2 years based on this very trustworthy logic !

You see...poor,innocent "hunter" in today's world drug testing WORKS !!! Drug use has STOPPED.
ONLY the dinosaurs of the 80's (the non-americans and the Americans we choose) used drugs.
We have to WRITE OFF their records and replace them with the records of today's mediocr....ehhh...clean athletes that we see much more during meets and have to say hallo to.
The dinosaurs of the past do not belong in our group,they were bad bad and will go to hell hell hell.
But,let's just take a break,invite them to a hall of fame to take a little advice on how to throw and how to use dru...eh...our bodies in training so as to create better throws and take the medals away from the EVIL eastern Europeans that use the forbidden glide that only the drug cheats use.

LOL,the fun never stops !!!

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published at Oct 12th 2007 3:53am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Dan McQuaid

JRapp makes a good point. If my memory is correct, he put the shot about 23 feet as a high school freshman. Seven years later he was DIII national champ. So you can't cut those young guys based on how far they throw. And I don't. I cut them based on attitude. If they jag around in the weightroom or show no interest in improving their technique, they are cordially invited to find another sport. If, like the young JRapp, they show they are willing to sacrifice to get better then I keep them. Saves everybody a lot of trouble and keeps my blood pressure stable.

--Dan McQuaid

published at Oct 12th 2007 4:51am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Hunter

Have you ever had to cut a 50'+ thrower who isnt all that interested in track? Would you cut a guy who throws 55-60' but messes around and doesnt give 100%?

Hope all is well,
Ken

published at Oct 12th 2007 5:07am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Scratch

The answer to all questions in competitive events is as Al said it is. "Just win baby" It doesn't matter what you do. Cut the loser dedicated kids. To reply to Hunter. Keep the lazy kids that throw far. Because kids that throw far win. Somebody did roids, so what, they won. The world loves winners.
"If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin."

published at Oct 12th 2007 8:30am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from JRapp

I think that would be a very difficult decision. You would have to determine whether or not the 55'-60' was helping the team more than the bad attitude was hurting the team. Young guys who see a guy succeeding without trying hard is very damaging.

published at Oct 12th 2007 8:36am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from JRapp

I hope you're trying to be either funny or sarcastic, because otherwise that would be the dumbest thing anybody has ever said on this forum.

published at Oct 12th 2007 8:42am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Scratch

Ever? Wow! I guess that means its a record.

Why? The point of having any kind of competition is to win. If not go do something social and not COMPETE. ( I now owe a fee to Carl Brown for using caps). Its the job of the officials to catch the athletes. If you foul a throw and the off. doesn't catch it then it is a fair throw regardless if the athlete knows it or not.

This is a good reason to yell really big and loud at some smaller meets on a couple throws but not all, because some lesser officials will watch the shot on the yells allowing for some extra inches to the ring.
It even happens at larger meets more than you think. To get specific Cantwell's heel at the toeboard.

published at Oct 12th 2007 9:34am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from saminal

I have some success getting the underclassman to teach & do drills with middle school kids and freshman. After about mid season groups by aptitude form and can be broken out so groups are generally at the same skill levels. I have found that this teaches leadership and even some of the problem kids when given responsibilty to teach change attitudes.

The most gifted seem to always get short changed. I have rationalized that I am only really getting a gifted thrower started and a broad base and experiences across the board are best. I do not think sports specialization in High School is a good idea. I think we should build as good a base for future whatever as possible.

I am lucky I can work with kids anytime I want and indoors. So I cheat because all I do is Coach.

published at Oct 12th 2007 9:43am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from saminal

It seems like people are trying to straight line project and over simplify what could be a good subject. If some cycles on just because they are off for x period of time does not mean the gains ever go away. If you icrease your base it will almost always be above what it would have if clean always. Obviously everone has unique phisiology so one cannot extrapolate so simply.

One thing for sure it is damn discouraging having to explain to a young person who loves the sport and is talented and dedicated enough to be world class; that they may never know what they are competiting against.

published at Oct 12th 2007 9:49am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Dan McQuaid

I've never cut a kid who threw that far, but I would if the kid was damaging the program with his attitude. I think the Chicago Bulls have the right idea. Remember all those head cases they had after the Jordan era? Mike Gattone worked at the Berto then and he told me that one time when he was trying to help Ron Mercer do some stability exercises, Mercer looked at him and said, "I don't do that faggot shit." But then John Paxson came in and decided to build a program where there was no room for head cases. They cut loose or traded some pretty talented guys because they wanted to build a culture where hard work was honored. I'd like to do the same thing. And nothing sabotages that culture more quickly or surely than having your most talented guy be a douche. There was a shotputter in our area who put up some pretty impressive numbers the last three years, but he conducted himself like a complete ass at meets and got in some pretty serious trouble with the law in his spare time. Because he threw far though, his coaches fawned over him. At a meet one of his coaches gave me the evil eye because I rolled the kid's shot back to him. "I'm trying to keep it from getting dusty," he told me. I think the guy almost threw out his back bending over to kiss the kid's ass. The kid scored a lot of points for his team, but you tell me, are they ever going to have a decent program when they let their best guy behave like a jerk? What do you tell the other kids? You guys have to work hard and conduct yourselves like gentlemen...unless you can throw 60 feet? That's a slippery slope that I'd rather not go near.

Congrats on your medal at Athens. Good luck getting the gold back from Belonog.

I'm glad you went into the coaching business. It is always interesting to read your posts. Now we've got to get JRapp back into the fold.

--Dan McQuaid

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published at Oct 12th 2007 9:57am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Coach Rodney

The world loves winners? There is part of the world that if you didn't win, you went to jail or lost your life. 40-50-60 years ago, you were taught to win. In the 30's and 40's one country taught that to their young men, that Jews and coloreds and others should be wiped from our land. Our world at times have been so scary and today its going that way again. Cutting kids because you have to many? What, you just want to work with the best? You don't have time to work with a kid with two left feet? The kid with cement in their shoes? What you don't want to be seen as their hero? or someone who took that extra moment of time to see a young boy or girl improve by an inch to see that smile on their faces when they improved by a foot. Many have forgotten about John Wayne and apple pie, Many on here didn't know John Wayne! At the HS level, many are there to learn, few become champions, and if that young boy or girl improve with knowledge, technigue, strength and distance don't they become winners!? Let the college coaches weed the kids out that they can't handle. You the HS coach you need to be that hero in the eyes of your young throwers.

published at Oct 12th 2007 10:02am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from jakefree

push the ball left with your right knee and hip

published at Oct 12th 2007 10:03am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from CoachK

I am looking for the best place to order some 30lb, 32-33lb, and 37lb indoor weights. I know that Gill could possibly make something like that, but is there a better place or less expensive place to get this done?

Thanks -

published at Oct 12th 2007 10:27am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/