"The Ring" archive entries from Oct 12th 2007

Quote from LetItRip

Your points are valid, and many of us have different feelings on this, thus the back and forth discussions. But theres no way this is a cut and dry matter of saying that hes the greatest, put him in the HOF.

I have heard from plenty of sources that said using what they did gave them incredible improvements/gains. Its really tough to say what people often do, that thee stuff doesnt make champions, yada yada yada. cant make you hit a ball, etc.. but the reality is, it very well is the difference of them being a very good elite athlete among many others, and being the best, and in fact possibly allows some to call them the BEST EVER! for that fact, you have to seriously look at it..

so when your talking about a guy like Randy Barnes at 6'5 300 whatever, it could be the difference.. when your talking about Barry, who already ws one of the best players in the league, it was the diference CLEARLY that gave him a title by many as the GREATEST of all time.. so these are examples that show it CAN be the difference in someones career and life..

so what im trying to say is.. using performance enhancing drugs by the most talented people greatly enhances the chances for them to become the BEST evers in their respective sport. Doesnt this or shouldnt this also affect how we perceive them ?

I loved Randy Barnes as a thrower, theres no doubt about it.. i love Barry Bonds as a baseball player.. but after the fact, i say shoot if My jeter did the same stuff, how much beter would he be ? because of that, instinctively i cant control but to have less feelings about Bonds as a result of the drug use..(Any mention of drug use is purely speculation)

Just thoughts for discussion..

Mike
LetItRip!

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published at Oct 13th 2007 12:27am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from Scratch

You seem to not understand the term potential. A good coach makes something good out of potential. Mr. Nelson had potential but had yet to realize it. A good coach should also be able to see those with no potential and who are wasting everyone elses time. These posts have been about getting better. To do so we need to thin our throwing herds of kids who are fooling themselves and focus on winning. Winning is, say it with me Smach, is the point of getting better. You can not create something from nothing. That is creation ex nihilo, so your statement is the one containing no logic, or rational thought. For the kid to even get better he has to have some sort of potential hiding in their, not all kids do. Who knows maybe your idea of success is lower than what i consider success.

published at Oct 13th 2007 12:29am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from 70footer

all great points by "letitrip" but I think the point I was shooting for is for example if Bonds is hitting 70 home runs because he is on the juice , that doesn't necessarily make him a cheater, the plain truth is that the guy pitching the ball is juiced too! so the point of Barnes being the best is the same , and we get a little naive at this point , because we don't want to believe that everyone is on the stuff at a certain level. but I think in my experience it is true.
there is no way to prove any of this and what I am saying is that until a blood test is done rather than a urine sample , there will always be a way to get past the test for most. and I for one am not discounting anything that anyone does regardless becuase I think they are all on....so I am still impressed by the likes of Barnes and Bonds. and really they are the best out there and in history.
I can wish for a clean world but know it is not happening now...and if we were all clean I think the same athletes would win that way too , simply because champions are champions. and while these are my views, there is no one right way to view this if all the facts are clearly there....you guys will have your own thoughts...but know this Barnes was a bad ass for the ages and left it on the history books....and he was a product of his time and other competitors that were not caught were walking the same road too.

published at Oct 13th 2007 12:52am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

Quote from LetItRip

Theres different levels of potential, and it could mean something different depending on the respective level. Some look for Height, Long Levers, Body Type, Gene Pool :-), cognitive ability, coordination. yada,yada,yada..

Point is.. Its not always 100%, but you can surely leverage risk but recruiting the 6'4" kids to throw discus.. youll probably do all right if you get those kids each year..

However, whats better, a 6'4" kid whos naturally strong but LAZY, or a 5'9 kid who is a tireless worker whos willing to do whatever it takes to be successfull ? i take the 5'9 kid each time..

thing is.. a coach could waste a whole season or so figuring this out. its probably a good idea to find out how athletes are as people and what kind of work ethic they have. A good idea is to ask around maybe or even give some kind of test or survey to athletes to have them fill out in the beginning of the year, attempting to find this without blatantly asking them if they are lazy


knowing how an athlete is as a person, friend, worker could easily translate into their performaces as an athlete..

knowing it could have a huge difference on your season and success..

one last thing on cutting.. Cutting a kid could have more of an affect on an athlete than keping them in some scenarios. Theres probably many stories (Michael Jordan being an easy one) where it motivated an athlete beyond belief to come back stronger and prove themselves. they might not have had the same motivation just makign the team. This is certain scenarios that maybe coaches have to be able to visualize..

Mike
LetItRip!

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published at Oct 13th 2007 12:59am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/