"The Ring" archive entries from Aug 31st 2007

  • published at Aug 31st 2007 1:01am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 31st 2007 1:05am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from Coach Herring

    I have to agree that nothing can prepare like experience. On a lower level, i have a thrower w/ a 54m PR in disc. She fouled out of the regional meet both fresh and soph year, got through as a junior, with a low 50m throw and threw 45m at NC's. I only hope that we can manage to deal better with the pressure next year, but even so, she is progressing.

    published at Aug 31st 2007 2:02am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    Biofeedback and motor learning are interests of mine as well. In order to directly answer your question I have to say that this is a over thirty years of experienced based research project in the throws and not a clinical research project. I apologize for taking the clinical expert of of context. As for the practical expertise the single most difficult as pect to unlearn in the throws is the contraction of muscles in partial or full stretch in throwing athletes. Once the large muscles of the chest are contracted at that point the connection between the upper body and lower body have been ultimately lost. Training the an athlete that hasnt learned to incorperate strech reflex and complete motions inot ther tech ultimately leads to using the large muscles of the chest for contraction on full stretch which is much slower than the stretch reflex as an accelerator of an unweighted implement. The numbers and facts of strech reflex are enough to place it ahead of brute strength alone. My laboratories are the circle and the runway. I again, apologize for taking the positon of a clincal researcher in the lab.

    published at Aug 31st 2007 2:14am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from jayess

    I don't know. It's hard to say.

    What I was trying to comment on was all the posts mentioning certain size requirements in order to have world class potential in the discus, and I was just wondering how many times Nelson and Hoffa might have heard that they just didn't have the size that would allow them to go very far in the shot put.

    Hats off to them for demonstrating that the so-called intangibles are still a big part of the equation.

    published at Aug 31st 2007 2:34am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 31st 2007 2:38am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 31st 2007 2:56am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from w8coach

    I trust that we all take care and naturall respect one and another's position graciously and agree and disagree with intent on making the sport better. NONE of us should have to post their resumes, each post, in order to persuade the masses. It is my belief that each has a position and a right to question the hierarchy.There is always someting out there that could help our thrower's position, we just have to be open-minded and not defensive in approach. Too many of the posts have either been somewhat inflamatory, defensive,or taken out of context. I agree with you that experience is the master and making it to Europe can be the turning point in a young career. I agree with you on the the sloppy tech but I think improvements can be made with all as no thrower has perfect tech. Not a knock but a fact or they should quit as they've reached their max performances already. Perfecting their tech will ensure optimum performance in any venue, bottom line. As far as the knocks against Bud, those are persona and derived from an obvious jealous intent. As coaches with the ability to see, sure his like all others disply flaws that will not allow them to maximize when it's nut cutting time. My throwers have flaws. It's a constant work in progress but I have to be open to chage even if it is a blow to my ego. Ultimately we all want the very best for all athletes.I totally understand what you relayed to us about George's comments on surviving the games. I didn't throw in the games but I did throw in the trials and it is virtualy the same set up for the athlete. Too little concern for the athlete and too much concern for media and expected actions. Still solid tech rises to the top again. I don't have as much experience with specific strength as I am still a firm believer in throwing lighter implements as they force the thrower to feel the reduced weight by moving off-side body parts. If you contract you can't feel it move. I am of the opposite of the spectrum as to what is the most largest breakdown. True the trial and the games are set for the bigger and stronger throwers due to two warm up throws and limited time to get the feel but if an athlete has poor tech strength is only going to take them so far or the biggest and strongest would always win. Complex tech or solid tech doesn't breakdown for those who practice it. I saw very few to this point in the comp that have it. I truly hope that you are classifying the "Arm-Chair Quarterbacks" comments to where it applies. NONE of us are without tech disparities. Collaboratively, and not as a dictator, we can help find ways to keep our high maintainance ego out of the way loing enough to help our thorwers improve the positions they already enjoy. Remember, unfortunatley clean is a loose term for those who haven't been caught. Why can't the masses stop using the durg excuse and focus on proper tech.

    published at Aug 31st 2007 2:57am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from tomsonite

    I don't know much about the subject, but
    1. I have also heard that dead lift correlates to discus distance...don't know how or why, I've just heard that before too.
    2. I have also heard that Anthony Washington did little conventional weightlifting, and the lifting he did do was mainly snatches and jump squats. Which we could all agree worked for him.

    Do many elite discus throwers have huge benches like shot putters? I don't know, thats why I'm asking. I guess Rutger Smith might since he's a good doubler but does anyone know about other throwers today/from history?

    published at Aug 31st 2007 3:09am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 31st 2007 3:36am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from MadDog

    I just wanted an idea of when do you start with heavy implements? Do you start from day 1? With females is there a certain weight that is a cutoff weight such as 35lb in the weight throw and maybe 50lb for men? I'm very interested in this topic because I've personally seen two of your throwers in the weight do incredible things with tremendous improvement. Watching Britney throw over 75 feet falling away from the sector and seeing mark milleville go from a mid 50 foot thrower to a 70 footer with the weight. What they've done is simply amazing.

    published at Aug 31st 2007 4:38am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from JRapp

    If you watch the discus video Mac Wilkins made (Gold Medal Discus?) he mentions that he believes the bench hinders discus technique. He suggests doing dumbbell flyes instead. Jurgen Schult reached a point late in his career when he only did half squats and bench press, so I'm assuming he did bench through the early part of his career. I don't think bench has nearly the impact on the disc as it does the shot. I think doing straight arm dumbbell flyes that work the stretch reflex are better for the disc than a benching movement.

    published at Aug 31st 2007 4:38am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • Quote from Coach Herring

    I like to look at my throwers and rank their needs, for example 1. power, 2. flexibility, 3. speed, 4. coordination, ....and so on. I come up with these rankings based on their weaknesses. I think it wold be hard to say the bench press will make or break a thrower. That being said if they do not have shoulder or flexibility issues, the bench press is utilized in the rotation of exercises. The bench press probably would not make my top three, when ranking priority lifts for a hammer / discus thrower, but it definitely would for a shot putter. That being said it still is part of my program for all my throwers granted they don't have the issues mentioned before.

    I have to agree with Coach Smith, that you must look at your program as a whole. i don't think any one is sitting in the weight room bench pressing every day. We are all working technique through drill / throws, speed, explosiveness, but while a thrower developes their throwing abilities, a thrower with marginal technique and above average power/strength levels will through farther than a thrower with marginal technique and marginal power. I especially agree that many women throwers are throwing very far based almost exclusively on power with a small implement.

    published at Aug 31st 2007 5:20am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

  • published at Aug 31st 2007 5:23am on http://www.effortlessthrow.org/

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